Why it’s the duty of every Sanders supporter to vote for Hillary

There’s a common misconception that elections are job interviews; and that candidates need to “earn” our vote, as if we’re doing them a favor by putting them in office. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Elections are selfish. They’re not about the candidates, they’re about us. They’re about choosing someone who will have inordinate influence over our lives and our livelihoods for the next four years.

To the degree that the job metaphor is apt, picking a president is more like picking a nanny for your kids. Except in this case, it’s down to two candidates, and one is going to get hired. Your only options are to pick one, pick the other, or don’t pick either and let someone else make the choice for you.

To take the analogy a bit further, let’s call the first nanny Hillary. As hard as you try, Hillary just doesn’t move you. You see, there was another nanny named Bernie, and you adored Bernie. But Sadly, Bernie didn’t make the cut. So now you’re left choosing between Hillary, who doesn’t excite you, and another nanny named Donald, who is categorically crazy and hates your kids.

Your only choice is to hire Hillary, hire Donald, or let some stranger choose which of the two is going to have ultimate say over the most important thing in your life.

I’ve seen people talk about how Hillary Clinton is “bad” on fracking, and Wall Street, and money in politics, so they’re just not going to vote for her in November unless she does something “big” to win them over. But how is Donald Trump on all of those issues? Far worse than Hillary, in fact. And how is Donald Trump on the civil rights of gays, women, blacks, Latinos, and Muslims? How is Donald Trump on climate change, immigration, criminal justice, gun violence, privacy, health care, and caring about the middle and working classes? And how is Donald Trump on a woman’s right to choose? Awful, awful, awful.

If you choose not to support Hillary in the fall, because of some misguided notion of what she “owes” you, then you choose to cede the election to a man who will destroy every cause that Bernie Sanders, and you, once claimed to care about. And while you may be in a position in life that it won’t affect you directly if Trump bans Muslims, repeals Obamacare, and does everything he can to hurt gays, blacks, Latinos and women, is that really why you felt the Bern this election — because you put your own disappointment over the needs of the many?

Look, I get it. It feels totally unfair that your guy lost. We’ve all been there. (The election of 2000 comes to mind.) But cutting off your nose, and the collective noses of every American, out of a personal sense of pique is the last thing your revolution was about.

When Hillary and Bernie were in the Senate, they voted together 93% of the time. You could do a lot worse than electing a second President Clinton — you could help elect President Trump. And then you can really kiss your revolution goodbye.

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis  — Win a pony! (not really)

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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617 Responses to “Why it’s the duty of every Sanders supporter to vote for Hillary”

  1. Dustin Dean says:

    Starting to look into Jill Stein, I’ve never heard of her, but that would be a much better option than going Trump. The problem is, I’m a Georgian, and guess who isn’t on the ballet in Georgia? The Green Party.

  2. Dustin Dean says:

    I’m sorry but I will not, cannot, vote for Hillary. The Democratic ‘Super-Delegates’ vote which ever way they choose and they chose someone I will not trust with my freedom of speech. I… rather dislike Trump. A lot. That said, I dislike Hillary Clinton FAR more and, while I would normally choose to go independent in a situation like this, I think I’ll vote for the Rattle Snake I can see and hear rather than the Brown Recluse I can’t see coming.

  3. Jonathan says:

    Voting for Hillary just because Bernie isn’t the nominee is just hypocritical. If you truly feel your vote counts, than vote who you feel should be President, or don’t vote at all. Party line voters piss me off.

  4. Logan Smith says:

    This is how I feel as well. I’ll be changing my registration to independent next time I update it, and I’ll be voting for Jill Stein in the election.

  5. Logan Smith says:

    You could write in Bernie, but supporting Jill Stein of the Green party is a better option in my opinion. She shares Bernie’s views and values.

  6. Logan Smith says:

    Writing in Bernie is just throwing away your vote. You may want to consider supporting Jill Stein of the Green party. Her positions and values coincide Bernie’s. Support of a third party candidates may help us break free of the two party system.

  7. Mike_in_the_Tundra says:

    You do realize that we can see all of your comments on Discus. You have been a Trump apologist for quite awhile. You’re also a racist. No wonder you are so fond of Trump.

  8. FireLyingRYAN says:

    F ….. U ….as a LIFE LONG Democrat it is MY DUTY to my COUNTRY to vote for Trump….he may a loud mouth, but he is FAR and ABOVE the Clintons…..I am so SICK of the BUSHES and CLINTONS I will NEVEr VOTE FOR EITHER

  9. Elizabeth Adair says:

    Jill Stein is a real alternative

  10. Elizabeth Adair says:

    Hillary Clinton is far more dangerous than Donald Trump

  11. winston says:

    Actually Donald Trump, as repulsive as he is, at least is not yet guilty of treason and crimes against humanity. Both of which Hillary Clinton is irrefutably guilty. A vote for her is a vote to continue the neocon policies of preemptive global warfare, based on demonstrable lies, only expanded on by Obama. See: ‘America’s Secret War in 134 Countries The deployment of US Special Operations forces is a growing form of overseas power projection.’ By Nick Turse All while poverty increases in the US at unprecedented levels and the jobs will never return. These criminals have stolen trillions from the Treasury. A vote for Hillary is a vote for them.

  12. Earl Henson says:

    So I really liked this nanny named Bernie but Bernie became unavailable. So I have to have a nanny named Hillary who is a lying, voter fraud cheating nanny- that’s the nanny I HAVE to pick?

  13. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    During this period, the Democrats were the party of southern racists, so your facile comparisons don’t mean a goddamn thing.

  14. Cookie Lipschitz says:


  15. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    Something of a postmortem here, now that Sanders has essentially conceded. I supported Bernie but also think he’s an old, weak candidate who was
    never prepared to fight all the way to the convention. It’s time for his
    supporters to not even bother with the histrionics and ridiculous calls
    for him to run as a third party candidate. He’s done, and we need to
    stop looking for any single person to bail us out of the horrendous
    political conditions in which we are trying to evince real progressive
    change. We need to build strong local movements first. Here in New
    Mexico, we have to get rid of our right wing corporatist legislature and
    particularly the Governor, we need serious action on issues that matter
    such as unemployment and redistribution of money presently feeding the
    nuclear industries and the rest of the Military Industrial Complex.
    Bernie is finished. And fuck him. Let’s move on to the dirty work that
    needs doing and stop expecting ANYBODY to do it for us.

  16. Sandy Sandven says:

    Yup, just another snide bully slapping bernie supporters down. You’re right, the writer here is yet another asshole with another opinion. Me too, green party or take my chances

  17. Ben Rushlow says:

    There’s more than two parties on the ballot! We’re one of the only countries that is under the illusion of only having two options. I’ll probably be voting for Jill Stein of the green party. You shouldn’t vote for the lesser of two evils. If both options are absolutely awful like this year, vote for a third party. With all of the dissatisfaction I hope to see the libertarians and the green party do better than ever this year.

  18. Dajoenie says:

    I think we have our own little “STOP” movement her on the democrats side. How hard would it be to just make up some new party’s?

  19. Dajoenie says:

    If Bernie quits now, all he will have done is disappoint the the young voters that he energized, and sour there taste for politics. To suppress peoples vote is an establishment goal. I guess they finally got to Bernie and proved that america is no longer the peoples. He got kids excited, and this is gonna be a let down big time for them, and me. If Bernie plays this wrong, the younger generation will loose faith, and the consequences will last 40 years not 4.

  20. London Water says:

    This whole article is not about how democracy works. Eesh.

  21. angelfire1712 says:

    And to add insult to injury, Reuters just announced that they have inside information that Elizabeth Warren will be supporting Clinton and may be up for VP. That would prove to me that Elizabeth isn’t the woman I thought she was. Her not endorsing Sanders early on now tells her intentions. Wow!

  22. angelfire1712 says:

    Duty…what? This is a democracy. Personally I cannot vote for Clinton after I’ve listened to her condescending remarks about the young Sanders supporters, how she treated Barack in 2008 and her ties to BIG money. I’ll either be writing Sanders in or I’ll vote for the Green Party and you can thank Hillary for that.

  23. ziggyman911 says:

    I can relate to that.

  24. ziggyman911 says:

    You couldn’t have said it any better. All except what Bernie Sanders followers need to do vote for a murderer. Vote for a woman that is under suspicion espionage vote for a woman that at one time talk about our borders being unsecured. She speaks out the word racist more than most people use the word Merry Christmas during Christmas time. She’s nothing more than four more years of Obama in this case I don’t care if she gets it or not America will sink in the mire it will only take 4 more years of food stamps people will begin to get the understanding we need jobs in America we need a strong National Defense we don’t need to please the world neither do we need to put our men in women’s lives in danger. So that we can foot the bill. I personally what not vote for Hillary if she was the only one running for office. I agree that Trump acts a little fruity it doesn’t have good mannerisms when it comes to politics but we don’t need another politician we need someone at the helm just like Obama doesn’t care what anybody thinks as commander and chief he can make up his own laws. No Mexicans should be coming across the border and especially no Muslims coming across our Southern borders. You’re either American or you’re not you can always tell the people that are truly in love with this nation Embrace this nation they don’t burn the flag they don’t throw eggs like children not have been any more happier to see those ignorant Californian whatever they were arrested and thrown in jail. Who is the racist the Democratic Party.

  25. Cal Lahan says:

    Yup there is

  26. Cal Lahan says:

    I am writing in Bernie. Bernie or Bust

  27. Robinhood Ignis says:

    Tbh i hate both Trump and Clinton.
    I wouldnt vote for neither of them :/ is there a write in canidate portion on US ballots?

  28. Patmajia says:

    Only in America would anyone dream of giving more responsibility to someone who can’t handle one embassy in Libya properly. If Hilary was a man, she would get absolutely nowhere, but because she’s an incontinent old biddy, a female, a novelty in politics, she gets woman votes.

  29. Zac says:

    This election isn’t about policy…

  30. Duke says:

    Please forgive any grammatical errors as this was talk to text while I’m getting ready for work.

  31. Duke says:

    To say inordinate influence is a bit extreme. At the end of the day all elected officials have to respond to their constituents. The problem is people like you that put out misguided views. Why would any Bernie Sanders supporter vote for the person who is part of making rigging the system and has been in it for many years? I am supporting Trump not because I think he is the best person but because he is the only person that seems to want to do what the people are asking. Yes he does speak from the cuff which sometimes causes and out of context reaction that the media loves to play on. The reality is he knows how the system is rigged. Every news Outlet including the supposed conservative news Fox has come out this morning and stated that Hillary has one. No one talks about the fact that a lot of them possibly majority Bernie supporters are actually registered independents without knowing the actual numbers in my own experience almost all my friends that support him are independent and even if you were Republican. Why does the news not say that place is like California like New York are closed primaries for Democrats. Why is my home state Nevada where delegates for Bernie not able to be a representative? The Burnie Sanders is not a line with my Center to right conservative views I am a true Patriot that believes in real democracy. We were really a democratic Republic where the people can truly a left then any person registered to vote should be able to choose the person they want to run for any party and should not be limited to just the two party system. Think about it and if you are a Bernie supporter you will not get any support from Hillary Clinton. Particularly if you care about the environment. I care about the environment and that is a hard part for me as GOP is not up to participate with what I feel. Put all the media Bologna aside and I understand the only reason Bernie Sanders did not get a chance or is not doing too get a chance is because career politicians like Hillary Clinton have made it to where he had no chance. When things like that happen that is a disgrace to democracy over straight to the people on the way we are supposed to be able to vote and elect. I would at least recommend to give Trump a chance and if we don’t like him we can vote him out in 4 year . Don’t be fooled Hillary Clinton made it so Bernie could not allow his people and supporters to voice their vote. Its not just her its those that don’t want someone that might actually listened to the people like Donald Trump or possible even Burnie Sanders to be in power. Even Fox News seems to be supporting Hillary Clinton and if that doesn’t say something… People please wake up.

  32. b1bbs g0t h4nds says:

    exactly the analogy was soo terrible. things aren’t nearly as simple as people think they are, they’re more nuanced. there are more than only 2 choices

  33. b1bbs g0t h4nds says:

    same here, exactly. agreed 100%. i wish Bernie would end the drone strikes, but whatever.

  34. b1bbs g0t h4nds says:

    bad analogy with the nannies. it’s not “hire Hillary, hire Donald, or let someone else choose the nanny for you” it’s more like, hire Hillary, Hire Donald, hire neither and take care of your kids yourself (fitting with the analogy). I wouldn’t vote for Hillary if a gun was put to my head. and the author makes it seem like the only thing wrong with Hillary is that she “doesn’t move you”. no sir, that’s not the only problem, there are far more problems with this bitch, trust me, her record shows it.

  35. ra232 says:

    To heck with the whole thing. I will not vote for Hillary if my life depended on it.

  36. Huey says:

    Both main nominees are awful and now the American people (well not really, only the Electors of the US Electoral College matter for the Pres. Election) are left to choose between a snake-oil salesmen with megalomania, or a “progressive” (whatever the hell that means anymore) that has a bit of a war-addiction. If there’s even one foreigner out there hoping that the US will come out of this election more cooperative and reasonable, you’d best dash those hopes on the rocks now and for the foreseeable future.

    I had a bit of hope that Sanders would pull through make this election palpable. I didn’t agree with him on everything, particularly regarding his position on drones and the International Criminal Court (well, lack of a position regarding the latter) . It’s a shame that it’s not panning out by the looks of it, but the notion of voting for either Trump or Clinton is repulsive to me. I have no intention of voting for either of the two and will have no part in supporting any leader who will apparently do their damnedest spread fear in the minds of millions worldwide. I hope many of the disappointed voters look to supporting a third party instead of being reluctantly supporting the “lesser of two evils” and voting against their conscience.

  37. sallyhampton says:

    After this primary, I would never consider voting for Hillary. I will be leaving the party and hope that Bernie will consider an independent run. If not, I am voting for Jill Stein. The idea of joining forces with the Hillary “Democrats” repulses me.

  38. Bryan says:

    I think I’ll take my chances voting for Jill Stein this year, Clinton supporters made it clear already. They didn’t need us they said, they can do it themselves. So I think I rather take my chances where you won’t get treated unfairly and poorly as the next candidate. At least third parties are more sensible.

  39. Mary Kay Baker says:

    It is my responsibility to vote for the better candidate. If Bernie is not available that is Jill Stein. I know to much about Hillary and can not vote for her, no matter what Bernie says. Trump and Clinton are the devil incarnate. I will not rant as I usually do about how the Clinton’s have contributed to the 40 year economic decline of the middle class while taking money from the organizations most responsible. I will not go on about their favors to forgein countries and Bill’s enormous speakers fees from these countries. I will not go on for paragraphs about how I think she has blood on her hands in places like Hondorus. I will just say anyone who really knows her record and votes for her does not have my respect.

    I believe what the Clinton’s have done and because of what they can continue to get done with the Clinton Mafia is far more dangerous than Mr. Trump. I believe he is evil but will not be able to get much done. The Clinton’s have proved themselves very capable of achieving disastrous policies that have hurt the poor the Middle Class and minorities while enriching themselves.. Their ability to get things done in politics makes them far more dangerous then Trump.

  40. Moderator4 says:

    There is no point in arguing with Moderators. You are out of here.

  41. Roberto Davila says:

    You think fool is bad? Do you even know the definition of the word ? Look it up.

  42. Roberto Davila says:

    So the very name of the person that wrote me is amazed by idiots but that’s okay? At least I use my name…
    Sent from my MetroPCS 4G LTE Android device

    —– Reply message —–

  43. Moderator4 says:

    Stop calling everyone you disagree with a “fool.” This is a warning.
    Disagree all you want, but eliminate the insults.

  44. Roberto Davila says:

    You are a fool what do you think are in those thousands of supposed deleted emails? Was she being a spy? Oh my God what fools this election cycle has brought out. The emails are bull shit nothing there . She is not going to be prosecuted you have to show intent to do harm . How are you going to prove that? Go back to sleep and let the grown ups do the hard thinking.

  45. Roberto Davila says:

    Ever heard of Jim Jones ? You fools believe everything Sanders says even though he lost ,that’s a fact. He says he is winning and you follow him like he is telling you the truth . Bottom line Hillary got more votes and more delegates without the supers and they are not going to go against the will of the majority because he says he’ll do better against Trump. Give me a break you sore losers.Vote how you like but stop whining….

  46. Kaylee Slickis says:

    Why is the DNC making us choose between a crazy nanny that hates our kids, and a nanny that will rob us blind and use our house to host parties while we are gone while the kids are tied up in the closet. Why cant we have Bernie? Someone who cares about out kids and wont harm them or ignore them for selfish reasons? If my nany agency sent me these two choices I would find a new agency. There are in fact other candidates in this race, its not down to two canddiates, and if Bernie cant watch my kids, I will hire Dr Jill Stein as my nanny, not Hillary “where do you keep the expensive silverware” Clinton

  47. John Smith says:

    I don’t care if some nonzero percentage (of marginally intelligent voters) will screw up their own ballots because of it; ***we need instant runoff voting*** to get out from under the thumb of the two-party system. No counterargument (“It’s too complicated, people would make mistakes on their ballots”) can convince me the current voting methodology is better than instant runoff would be.

  48. amazedbyidiots says:

    At all people who think they are entitled to my vote. Especially Roberto! Bernie voter too, not angry at you!

  49. amazedbyidiots says:

    OMG do you need a tissue? Your terror and anger at real voters who’ve done their homework is unbelievable! There is no Left/Right there’s only Top/Bottom. You sound like you’d sell your own mother to avoid facing the reality millions of us live in daily. You will never get people to vote for your comfort zone. #NativesForBernie

  50. Laura says:

    Given Trump’s blatant racism (now undermining a Mexican judge’s competence given his heritage), I think whoever the democratic nominee is will win, for better or for worse.
    I mean, I had an invisible house of student debt coming out of college in 2012; I think whether Bernie gets the nomination or not, he has made a serious impact for the better, especially on the younger generation.

  51. Laura says:

    As a Bernie supporter, unsure who your vitriol is directed at…

  52. amazedbyidiots says:

    Thank you for your excellent comments! I saw it too! My daughter spent 3 hours in lines at the NY primary. She had been registered Dem for 9 years, yet the poll workers refused to let her vote. She came armed with her birth certificate, license, voter registration card, utility bills plus she had written down the number for NYS voter fraud and Bernie’s voter fraud hotline. She parked herself in line and refused to move until she got to vote. Others she saw in line were not as feisty and got turned away. She passed out the numbers for fraud to everyone who didn’t get to vote. We are three generations of Blackfoot that ALL voted for Bernie. We could NEVER vote against our Earth Mother and our children’s children. Those who won’t fight for the best candidate for all of us, deserve exactly what they fear the most. We Berners will survive, and Hillbots may learn to toughen up.

  53. Agent K says:

    voted democrat my whole life but I’m voting republican this year and the foreseeable future. Hillary and her socialist grandpa can be strapped to a rocket and sent to Mars for all I care.

  54. amazedbyidiots says:

    Your arrogant sense of entitlement to strangers votes because you live in a fear-filled fantasy is disgusting. You’re as demanding as your Queen Hillary. Bow down, little man, you .lost a long time ago!

  55. amazedbyidiots says:

    So you’re impressed with the two-for-one presidency of corporate whores? Says volumes about your lack of ethics and morals!

  56. amazedbyidiots says:

    All the elite did. Even Elizabeth Warren made money flipping houses to fill her accounts with the pain and tears of those forced to sell their homes before foreclosure. . Change comes from the BOTTOM up! apparently you’re comfortable and scared. Some of us, especially those of us who’ve spent a lifetime fighting for all life on the planet have lived lives of deliberate poverty and simplicity so that all can prosper. Your fear does not deserve my vote, only my disgust!

  57. amazedbyidiots says:

    Why all the hate against Trump? I’ve seen the horrors of the Clintons. We’re living with the results of their avarice, war worship,Wall St devastation, and love of fossil fuels. I’m Blackfoot, this is my land, the rest of your type are terrified immigrants, afraid of a “savage behind every tree”. I’m Bernie or Bust and will NEVER vote for the banshee and her disgusting pervert man. You didn’t have the stones to fight for a real candidate so you got Hillary. If you get Trump because of it, that’s your problem. My people have waited since 1492 to find a decent, inclusive human being that wants everyone to leave a better life for the future. Your weakness and fear is embarrassing. Get up on your hind legs and fight back!

  58. Brenden Castellanos says:

    It is not my duty to vote for Hillary Clinton. I will not vote for an arrogant, corrupt, lying candidate. If Hillary and her Hillarybots want(ed) us to be a united party, the way to do it is not to continue to rig our elections or insult our intelligence. We are angry with the state of American politics, both in and outside of our party. This will not be swept under the rug. Bernie Sanders has permanently changed the face of American politics whether Hillary Clinton or her blind supporters would like to acknowledge it or not. We will return in the next election cycle. You will see us as governors, senators, and representatives one day. We will NOT be forced to vote for the lesser of two evils nor will we allow corrupt practices to dominate our nation. #BernieOrBust

  59. Kenneth C Richardson says:

    A write in is not a waste. The democratic party does not believe progressives will turn away from Hillary. After I vote on Tuesday in New Jersey, I am leaving the party to help them get a clue. If they still don’t find that clue, then I suspect Hillary will lose in November. Simple.

  60. Jesus Christ says:

    I highly recommend you educate yourself beyond this election. Wake the hell up… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZLK5lDhdqQ

  61. Roberto Davila says:

    You’re a damn idiot. You harp on how the system is rigged. The rules have been in place for a very long time . Hillary is ahead of Bernie she has always been ahead. Even without the supers . And you fools cry how unfair it is when the math is not there for Bernie . Millions have been spent for you fools to make an opinion of Hillary. Sanders has not been under the microscope like Hillary and she is still standing . You vote for Trump that’s your option but don’t say that Hillary is worse than trump if you really believe that then you are very confused. Trump will damage everything that Obama has fixed . We need a republican in the white house to fix problems? We’re you living in a coma through the bush years? What an idiot you are. Sad how stupid the country has become. LMAO.

  62. Jesus Christ says:

    No, dumb fuck. He said “first”… not a democrat… You’d have to be retarded to think there is a difference between D/R. Bernie is an independent.. What do you know about anyone’s convictions? It’s dumb asses like you, who will just vote for Hillary because of the D next to her name. Her record is more like a NeoCon… more Bush than Bush. You should educate yourself. The system is rigged, always has been

  63. Laura says:

    I mean, I was super involved in the MA primary as well taking a close look at the results. I believe MA was a super important state (was super tight) and Hillary knew that. As a result, Bill Clinton showed up at the Newton public library which apparently was a violation of the election rules in MA. Anyway, if you could point me to some article or data that would back up what you are saying, I would be open to read it, but 17,000 is still a rather large margin. Hillary took most of the greater Boston area (w/ a lot of affluence) and Bernie took basically the rest of the state.
    I don’t like Hillary, but I am truly terrified for the damage Trump could do and would prefer her over him. It’s my personal opinion (for right now) that a write in would be a waste of a vote when the stakes are so high. Trump wants to cancel the Paris Agreement climate deal (which he obviously can’t do), but seriously, he could do a lot of damage both here in the U.S. as well as U.S. relations. North Korea would like to see Trump as president, if that a reflection of what a nightmare it would be. I chose the lesser of two evils, and I’m sorry for anyone that doesn’t like that argument, but it’s how I feel.

  64. graphik zen says:

    Bernie did not lose the MA primary. The electronic voting boxes wrongly suppressed Bernie votes. Dont vote for Corporate DNC Inc, they forgot the little d in their name. Its not a democracy when you have to vote for one of two unpopular candidates, that is a broken democracy. You can vote for Jill Stein or write in Bernie. Killary didnt earn my vote she sold it to Goldman Sachs and then she refuses to tell me what she said to them behind my back.

  65. graphik zen says:

    Many many good people have already said it but also I will never vote for a criminal psychopath who thinks she is above the law. Obama wanted to pull out of Iraq and not support the banking bailout but Hillary has been the biggest mouth supporting these type of suicidal policies. She is so establishment she has her own “non-profit” to grant favors to foriegn. Trickle down feminism? She is more unpopular than Trump. Stop blaming the voters for having undemocratic closed primaries, confusing caucus system, and election fraud! NO I’m not voting for Killary, and stop shoving her down my throat already. Tell Hillary to get those 30k emails she deleted and ask former president Gerald Ford for a pardon! LOL

  66. Laura says:

    Hi Mick – as you might have inferred if you carefully read my post, Bernie is my first choice, and I am happy to support Bernie if he gets the nomination. We will know more more in the convention in late July. I am most certainly not brainwashed by “newz”; I am extremely informed. I am going to support whoever the democratic nominee is. I campaigned in MA for Bernie, so I really don’t understand your vitriol. As you’ve demonstrated in your reply, I am beginning to find die-hard Bernie supporters just as close-minded and bigoted as those on the far-right.

  67. Gerald Wilgus says:

    Our real enemy is neoliberal ideology and both Trump and Hillary are neoliberals. So there is no real choice since with Trump things get worse quickly and with Hillary it will just take a little longer.

    Stop preemptively blaming the voters instead of the candidates. I won’t get suckered any more to vote for the lesser of two evils and will support Jill Stein.

  68. Mick says:

    So you’re brainwashed by ms Newz and you think you’re “informed” Bernie did not lose, wake up

  69. Brian Keith Smith says:

    It is never my duty to vote for a criminal psychopath like Hillary. If Chump wins it is on the Democratic party for running a weak candidate against him. It is the party’s business to listen to the people. Instead of doing that they screwed tens of thousands out of their primary vote & now ignorantly expect those same disenfranchised voters to vote their way in the general election.

  70. ClydeMcWhorter says:

    You can wait forever and Hillary will have evolved back forth so many times that she can’t remember what she said . Hillary should be in jail. She and billary are the two of a kind.! I will never vote for a establishment democrat cadidate again.. I will vote for the progressive candidate that has not been pjcked by the establishmenr. I will always vote for the one running against the incumbent !
    I am 70 years old and it is Beenieorbust .

  71. UCF_Engineer says:

    Of course the Republicans would choose Trump over Clinton. They could also choose any Republican (like Romney) that they want.

  72. Kenneth C Richardson says:

    It is not my Duty to vote for Clinton. One should not vote one way or the other out of fear. Letting fear control your vote is a waste. Vote with your principles.

  73. Hugh DeMann says:

    The Republican controlled congress would not choose Trump in that scenario. In my opinion, we would be better off letting the congress choose than voting Hillary into office.

  74. Hugh DeMann says:

    I will never ever vote for the war mongering Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. In the end, it does not matter which candidate marches us toward WW III, it is going to suck when our young men are getting murdered for oil profits. I do not vote for Republicans. Period.

  75. buck short says:

    Seriously stfu with the Trump hate. He isn’t racist or homophobe or any of those things. You just want the government to wipe your asses for you and have the mentality of a slave. Fuck that, the government is already too powerful. Wtf is wrong with u people?

  76. Laura says:

    I really appreciated this article – thank you. I’m 26 y/o female and voted for Bernie in the MA primary. I was very sad when Bernie lost the primary, but Hillary had the popular vote by 17,000 (a significant number). I am now moving my support to Hillary because I am truly terrified by the prospect of Donald Trump as president. He denies climate change (Lake Mead, U.S.’s largest reservoir that supplies water to CA, AZ, NM and NV is at 37% – an all time low due to drought precipitated by climate change), has promised to build a wall in between the U.S. and Mexico, is overtly sexist (objectifying and demeaning women) and anti-muslim. Trump could do irreparable damage, and I will do anything to prevent that.

  77. Laura says:

    Might I add here that Hillary’s prospective opponent, Trump, also expressed excitement for the 2008 crash in a very unscrupulous manner: “People have been talking about the end of the cycle for 12 years, and I’m excited if it is … I’ve always made more money in bad markets than in good markets.”

  78. Paul Dunn says:

    Dude, STFU. #BERNIEORBUST #NeverHillary

  79. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    congratulations, your entry was 100% fact-free. HRC is a war monger and a corporate shill.

  80. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    Nonsense – you need to go read a bit.

  81. Candy83 says:

    I’ve seen enough hit pieces from John Aravosis on Bernie Sanders that I can laugh at and dismiss his arrogant column title in which he figures he is in a position to give any instructions to voters.

    John—you are as despicable and corrupt as the rest of the professional left has revealed of themselves here in 2016. So, you can go get Hillary Clinton elected president of the United States without me.

  82. Roberto Davila says:

    I assume that if your adult children really did change and had proof that they would have been easily let vote . There are some mistakes in any election cycle but my God are you trying to say the millions of votes more that Hillary has are all by cheating? Give me a break . Someone has to lose and your guy never gained ground no matter what you think more people want Hillary and not Bernie and that is the fact. The news you hear about Hillary not being exciting or popular is just bull. California will once and for all end it and now it’s time to defeat the dangerous Trump this guy is just plain nuts.

  83. Kayenta V. van Keuren says:

    Good post Bryer, or write Bernie in as another option.

  84. Kayenta V. van Keuren says:

    I am so profoundly sick of hearing Clintonbots claim that she is winning this fair and square. For God’s sake, Roberto, haven’t you read about the numbers of Independents who wanted to vote for Bernie across the country but were cheated out of the chance!!! My own two adult children had this happen in Ariz. They are Independents who changed to Dem well before the deadline but mysteriously (hmm) their party was changed to undeclared and they couldn’t vote in the AZ primary debacle. This is happening over and over, look at how Bernie’s NY borough had so many voters purged. Now in CA, it seems like many new voters might get tripped up by archaic primary voting rules. Redo this whole mess on fair grounds, and Bernie SLAMS Hillary nationwide.

  85. RPDC says:

    Well, if you like bombs, and dead brown and black people, it doesn’t get much better than Hillary Clinton. Oh, and the TPP/TTIP/TiSA – who doesn’t love those?!

  86. Maniate says:

    You’re right, voting is a selfish endeavor. That other people are frightened of a caricature from the 80s doesn’t change my selfish desire to tell the Democratic Party to fuck off and not come back until they feel like getting my back again. Trump doesn’t scare me in the least. What frightens me is that the DNC and party in general will never turn back from the path they’ve take these past few decades.

  87. me says:

    With you. Sixty-seven years old and a Democrat my entire life. I’m done. I will never, under any circumstance whatsoever vote for Hillary Clinton. Never.

  88. Talidan says:

    I have no duty to vote for her. I have a duty to vote for who I agree with, and that is not Hillary. Trying to spread fear to vote for someone is disgraceful and the Democratic party should be ashamed.

  89. Josh Gray says:

    Change the title to “Why every Democrat should be a Zombie and Tow the Party Line”

  90. Roberto Davila says:

    And exactly when did Hillary have the power to make the do nothing Congress to do their job ? Seriously this is what’s wrong with this country ,people so easy to believe the lies they get from fox snooze . How in your mind you can say that crap about Hillary when you know that she hasn’t been elected yet but you can believe when Trump says he will make America great again . It would be easier for him and Bernie to tell you that they can carry a fart in their hand all day. LMAO…

  91. Patroklos Olosc says:

    Tell that to the people in the middle east and Honduras. Tell that to the millions of Americans without jobs and who lost their homes due to the financial crisis! You’re delusional if you think HIllary gives a fuck about anyone but herself!

  92. Roberto Davila says:

    Hey that’s the facts man . Look at the guy that was going to be speaker of the house before Ryan he said and I quote (everyone thought Hillary was unbeatable until we got this Benghazi panel together and look at her numbers now). Then he got so much flack from the right because he slipped and told the truth that he had to step down even before he got the job . This is what Hillary has had to go through times one hundred for years on end. And Bernie has not had to go through this kind of hate but believe me they were ready with the most foul things to say about him and his numbers would have tanked. 11 hrs of testimony in front of a bunch of right wing punks and she made them look like fools. She is an amazing woman that my girls I hope can look and see that they don’t have to be afraid of speaking their minds. I take back calling you a bot but I am sure that there is a way though a remote one for Bernie to win as I am sure it is possible for you to win an Olympic gold metal . Possible yes probably I doubt it . So sooner or later you have to deal with the reality that Bernie came up short. I am really sorry but now it’s time to fight against the real threat to our country’s welfare the fool that is Trump, and now he is bragging that Bernie’s people will vote for him.

  93. Roberto Davila says:

    Thanks and honestly if Bernie would have beat Hillary I would have gladly backed him even tho he is more left than I am ,he is way way better than the orange orangutan. Trump just figured out that the lies fox has been telling the people to dumb them down works for him and he made the primary into wrestling mania and the more outrageous he got the more free publicity he got from the news for their ratings. But have no fear in the general election he will fall flat when Hillary refuses to engage and calls him out in the debates (if he agrees to debate )on his policy ideas of which he is all over the place and finally has to pick one . They can say what ever about Hillary but she has fought for the children and the less fortunate. Trump said if he did not win it would have been a huge waste of his time and money. Who talks like that if they are out to help people? He would have said at least I tried to make America great again what happened to that? People that back him are so blind they don’t want to see what any kid can see, he is a foul mouth fake . Imagine a if people were asked if they could look up to a great man like Jack Kennedy then asked the same question about the orange fool. They call him a great business man ? Having all those bankruptcies and still calling himself great is a joke..His taxes will show he is not very rich as he claims so you will never get to see them period . That’s sad for the right wing ,it’s almost like seeing a train wreck happen in slow motion.

  94. Bryer Hawley says:

    Haha thanks I needed a good laugh. You condescending tool this is exactly why she is not gonna win. I love the name calling. Bernie bot out!

  95. Miriam Avelar Arvizu says:

    I totally agree with you. I feel bad that Bernies supporters are going to get disappointed and are going to take the attitude “if we loose, you loose” Hillary). While that is exactly what divisive Trump is looking for. Divide our party to be able to bake in and win. We have to join our votes against Carrot Face!

  96. Roberto Davila says:

    It’s the truth he is not a democrat he is a socialist. It’s right in front of you but you keep your eyes closed and even when you know Bernie has lost to Hillary you people keep saying he will take Hillary’s delegates at the convention. Bernie has lost his mind if he thinks they will charge their votes because some poll says that he would beat trump better than Hillary. I have an idea why have elections just do a poll on who would run the country better and like American Idol let that person run the white house. I bet Bernie bots would love that idea.

  97. Bryer Hawley says:

    Yeah a guy who has been fighting for progressive ideas for 30 years is a fake democrat. Did you get these words from the DNC handbook on how to belittle people.

    Don’t look down on people when your candidate is just as sleazy.

  98. Bryer Hawley says:

    This is the last post I am putting up respond if you want but I wont.

    The race has been rigged, I saw it myself. Its not a fair race when the DNC doesn’t allow people to vote. I had my fundamental right to vote taken away by some Clinton shills in the DNC. You would have a different opinion if you couldn’t vote.

    Yeah get on the boo the socialist train. You live in a socialist society already its called the police and fire departments. God forbid health care was run the same way.

    You sure she is helping down ballot candidates and not laundering for her own campaign.

    I like most of my friends who are Bernie supporters will be voting for the green party. I can wait a bit longer for change if thats what it takes for the democratic party to open its eyes. Its sad because we most likely have similar ideals. Have fun on the sinking ship that is the Democratic party.

  99. Roberto Davila says:

    Bull he tells you he is going to win and he will take Hillary’s pledged delegates even though they vote for whom ever has the most votes . Hillary is way ahead on votes . Well if he is the people’s choice wouldn’t he be ahead? And we need to see all of his taxes not just 2014 be for real. Hillary’s idea is to help down ballot races to change the do nothing Congress and she has been raising money for along time even for those who do not like her . But Bernie is not doing that because he is not a real democrat he is a socialist…he talks a good game but he has no game . The race is over and Hillary has sealed the nomination I don’t care what you think he has no path . So get behind the democratic nominee and let’s beat the real threat to our country the fool Trump….

  100. Bryer Hawley says:

    Tax returns

    Plan for Banks

    And the country needs some one who will talk to the country about what congress is doing, Shame can go a long way.

    He also doesn’t “spoon feed” people. He talks to people not at them like some other people.

  101. John Faulkner says:

    Her dishonesty in this campaign is a trail of breadcrumbs that anyone can follow. It does not require Bernie Sanders to point them out,

    She has been cheating on campaign finance since before the campaign started. She has setup a system whereby states accept donations from people who have maxed out their limit in their own state so they can bypass the individual contributions limits in return for a kickback to her campaign.

    She refuses to release the transcripts of her wall street speeches where people who were in attendance have told us what she said in support of the banking industry that caused the biggest financial crisis in history.

    6 of the states where she has won are under investigation for irregularities from telling people the date of vote has been changed to removing them from the voter rolls and shutting down the machines. What happened in Nevada most recently shows they arent even hiding it anymore.

    She has flipflopped on everything from trade deals to gay marriage. She was for the war before she was against it.She ran her own email server for state department business. Heck her dishonesty goes all the way back to her work at walmart and the real estate fiasco.

    She’s a corporate lackey and a cheater and she will never get my vote. Its not sour grapes. I’m just sick and tired of people standing for public office when the only interests they serve are their own, or their corporate masters. Wake up and smell the malfeasance!

  102. Maggie Flynn-Fleet says:

    We’re not voting for a person this election, we’re voting against the entire corrupt system. The only way to change anything is to elect a person who is not bought and paid for by the establishment. If we agree to vote for HRC, we’re saying that we no longer care about one of the issues that is vital to us – getting money out of politics. Without doing that, NOW, nothing will change, and we will continue down the road to oligarchy with “new” coronations occuring every four years, with or without the will of the people. The DNC has made it very clear they don’t want, nor need, independent voters. And if HRC is already the nominee, we don’t need to worry about it, right. She’s only 5 points behind Donnie nationally. I’m sure people will warm up to her in the next few months. I’ll wait.

  103. Roberto Davila says:

    I have been at this a very long time I have voted since I was old enough to vote and I vote for state and local races . I keep very well informed. I would like to say imagine if in your town people spent millions of dollars putting out lies about you. Do you think you would be very well liked ? Now imagine this going on many many years. Hillary has helped people more than hurt.

  104. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    and which common sense Rethug would that be? Trump?

  105. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    Like most of her supporters, your arguments are based in nonsense and emotion, and you haven’t done a bit of research on your candidate. Clinton is a serial liar, and a corporate shill and great friend of Wall Street. She doesn’t represent our interests any more than Trump does – and yes, he’s a baboon, an not a very intelligent specimen at that. The strong arm tactics of the DNC are a complete and utter turnoff. If the Dems loose, they have only themselves to blame.

  106. Cookie Lipschitz says:

    “Elections are selfish. They’re not about the candidates, they’re about
    us”. Well, I don’t know who the f**k you are, but I’m not a banker or a
    beneficiary of the Military Industrial Complex, so, not a chance. Kudos
    on a coming up with a meme worthy of J. Goebbels, though.

  107. Mr. America says:

    I dont vote for criminals. #BERNIEORBUST #NOSHADYLADY

  108. Roberto Davila says:

    Bull crap . If Bernie is right where are his taxes ? And when asked how will he break up the banks ? His answer was pathetic at best . He spoon feeds you people everything you want to hear but he knows he is just blowing smoke up your you know what. Please tell me how is he going to make Congress do everything he is promising you. And give me details how he will break the banks up? I am waiting on your response.

  109. Roberto Davila says:

    Where is this proof? It’s only lies because Bernie people weren’t prepared and did not register in time . So you are telling me if you have the winning lotto numbers but miss the time to put them in its OK because you should have won but missed the dead line to enter them? Hillary has done this before her people are way more prepared to win an election than Bernie . No more sour grapes people cut it out.

  110. Roberto Davila says:

    So let me get this straight you support Bernie a fake democrat but if he loses to Hillary a democrat you will support Trump a Republican fake. Yeah that makes sense. Go for it since you have so much conviction in your beliefs. Oh my !!! God help us all…..

  111. Bryer Hawley says:

    For one they change the rules to serve them. They also have ben suppressing votes, I was one. Second stop telling us to calm down most of are calm but sick of the crap.
    Thirdly I have disliked Hillary since I was in high school, this is not new hate for hillary.

    Its also sad that you would have voted for Bernie just because he was the candidate. This is one of the reasons why our government is a collapsing mess. I pick that guy because he is on the right.

  112. Bryer Hawley says:

    Mr. Aravosis you are a tool. I was denied the right to vote in NYC after my affiliation was changed mysteriously. It is not our “duty” to vote for Hillary. I have donated quite a bit to Bernie but Hillary is not going to get my vote.

  113. Joe Mama says:

    No they were not. They are suppressing votes to get her the nomination. I will vote Trump, first. I said a long time ago, no more Bushes or Clintons.

  114. Joe Mama says:

    Not a chance. She is as corrupt, as they come. She had not done a single thing to help the American People. She just flaps are ugly mouth… The truth is in her actions and who’s bankrolling her. PASS!!

  115. Kerry says:

    Amen! to that! Truer words were never spoken! Stockholm Syndrome is right on. Love it!

  116. Kerry says:

    Oh, Please….is this the best you can do? I’m sorry but yes, a candidate does have to “Earn” my vote. And Frankly, she’s done little to earn my vote as a Bernie Supporter–she’s been condescending and insulting instead. When asked what she would do to appeal to Bernie voters, all she could do was talk about how far ahead she is in the race, and how she really doesn’t “need” our vote. If that’s the case, I feel fine about not voting for her. And stop laying a possible “Trump presidency” at our doorstep–if that happens, it will be the fault of the Democratic Party for not listening or welcoming in the new Berniecrats, who could have helped propel them to victory had we been treated a little more decently. Not taking on that responsibility.

  117. Washington Darius Montell says:

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  118. Josh Howard says:

    Absolutely not. It was, and it still is #BernieOrBust. I won’t vote for Trump, but I sure as hell am not going to help her beat him.

  119. Roberto Davila says:

    Look I get it but if Bernie is losing and does not win why all the hate for Hillary? The rules were made long ago just because Bernie thinks he can win and doesn’t does not mean more people want him, he got people all worked up and now it’s if we lose then you lose type of mentality. That’s just wrong and if you believe that then you never believed in your cause in the first place because the thought of electing Trump is very very scary the guy is a fake and a fool . I’m am sure Obama did not give him much information on secrets than the average person knows . Bernie had a path but now it’s over , except the loss and get behind Hillary to defeat the real disaster which is Trump. If Bernie would have won I would have backed him with everything I got. I know the majority of dems would do the same I am an independent but I see that republicans have lost their minds they call trump unfit and crazy but now they say they will back him because he is on their team? This is what Rubio is saying. They believe only in keeping power and not the best interest of our country and their morals and values have gone out the window. They asked Ryan if his kids can look up to trump and his answer was pathetic and he deflected the question.Please calm down and take a breath I’m sure Hillary Will make sure Bernie gets a place in her administration he has earned that . Time for calm heads to bring Trump down like the stomping he needs to never ever to think about politics again which he has no business even running for dog catcher.

  120. John Faulkner says:

    How can anyone support Hillary Clinton when she is corrupting the election process? It is not revenge or sour grapes that keeps Bernie Sanders supporters from committing to support HRC…It is the dishonesty with which the campaign is being conducted.

    I don’t vote for cheaters, ever.

  121. Hey look! There’s this other Nanny over here name Jill Stein!

  122. John Cook says:

    We also have to vote the incumbents out that have signed their own suicide by becoming Super Delegates for Hillary such as Congressman Rick Larsen of Washington being replaced by Mike Lapointe, actually a hell of a lot better choice regardless of Larsen’s elitist B.S. attitude. As like you Francisco and many others, the reality of voting Hillary in as President is not even in question!

  123. Chuck Silva says:

    (left|right) are just different cheeks on the same oligarchical ass. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans are the speed their knees hit the floor when the oligarchs hit the door. That’s the ONLY difference.

  124. David Barkin says:

    I’m voting for Hillary because I trust Banks and Corporations to act in my interests. I want War, I want Corporate Rule. And I want fracking because God told me to rape the earth. I also believe that Universal Health Care is Communism, Making college part of the public education system is a waste of time for people who are just going to flip burgers. Working people are getting uppity, so I want more companies to leave America, and Ms. Clinton is the candidate who will sign any Free the Corporation agreement that comes down the pike!!! YES!!!!

    Isn’t it about time we elected a Common Sense Republican?

  125. UCF_Engineer says:

    Well then you aren’t going to like any politician, not even Bernie. For a supposed anti war/defense spending, anti gun legislator he voted against the Brady bill 5 times and voted to fund the insanely over budgeted (1.2 TRILLION) F-35 because he was pandering to popularity as well.

    And just because some people knew it was a bad choice (I knew it would end up just like Vietnam and I was right) the overwhelming majority of the country was swept up in the emotion of wanting revenge for 9/11. People make bad choices when they are overcome with emotion which is why the vote for war with Iraq had overwhelming support even from Democrats. I’ll take bad choices from the emotion of a terrorist attack over voting down a ban on military style assault weapons or funding a hugely over budgeted plane that the military has said it doesn’t even want any day.

  126. Al says:

    So once agaiin we should vote for the lesser of two evils? NVM she was in favor of a Syrian incursion in spite of what happened in IQ/AF & what we know now. The fact is she’s as much if not more of a war hawk when it comes to foreign policy. FFS she couldn’t even say that Israeli reponse in Gaza was disproportionate, which is fact.

  127. Al says:

    Because if you can’t say them a “sense” condescension will surely work. You’re patronizing attitude has deafened you to the fears poeple have about HRC & the facts surrounding her record, unless you’re a center right Democrat or a Third Way Democrat which Bill Clinton coined & made popular.

  128. Al says:

    Except you’re assuming that was the will of the base or her constituents. I lived in NY at the time & I remember many people w/ in the democratic base who were warning her & others about going to war w/ a country which we knew at the time had nothing to do w/ 9-11. I much rather prefer leadership based on ideals than a politician willing to pander to what seems popular at the time.

  129. Kenneth C Richardson says:

    The key here is: Does the Democratic party believe that a “political revolution” is necessary to protect the middle class and the poor from the increasing inequality and exploitation they face on a daily basis. Until the party and Hillary acknowledge the great inequality today and strongly embrace that we all should have access to free education, healthcare and a higher minimum wage to _balance_ out the exploitation of the average American by the wealthy, she will not get those votes. People believe that we have been sold down the river and will continue to be. If the American people had not been sold down the river already, Trump would have no support. If the average American had gotten direct mortgage refinancing help rather than the big banks, Trump would not have had the support he has today. Until a plan to rebalance opportunity, let alone wealth, is made, sold, and followed, the consumer base of the economy will continue to shrink and the economy and opportunity will shrink with it. Progressives believe this to be inherently true, does Clinton? Does the DNC? Instead we get criticized pointing the issue out and we are ignored.

  130. Al says:

    “but no one in their right mind would have voted against that war.” Except for those that did like President Obama & Bernie.

  131. Al says:

    Once again w/ the lesser of 2 evils argument. I refuse to vote if this is all I have to expect from HRC.At this point I’d rather let Wash. burn in hopes of rebuilding.

  132. Al says:

    Once again w/ the lesser of 2 evils arguement. I refuse to vote if this is all I have to expect from HRC.

  133. Violet Black says:

    Which is what Bernie did!

  134. UCF_Engineer says:

    None of the candidates think trade deals are inherently bad. The ones that the U.S has negotiated and agreed too have been mostly pro business and not been very good for our economy. Trade deals can go both ways. The other problem with the deals that the U.S has struck in the past, for the parts of the agreement that would help us, the other countries aren’t holding up their end of the bargain and we do nothing to enforce them.

    The thing I find ironic is that people think the Donald would make a trade deal that would actually help “the little guy” over here in America when trade deals are what made him and his rich buddies extremely wealthy. But he has proven to be a very good con-man.

  135. UCF_Engineer says:

    Me too, but they are a special kind of stupid and are in no way real progressives.

  136. blademan9999 says:

    There are a few things Sanders and Trump agree.
    Free trade deals are Bad. The TPP is horrible. (Just look up ISDS if you’re unsure.)

  137. blademan9999 says:

    He was also a Representative starting from 1991, or just before the cold war ended. And he was Mayor of Burlington for 8 years.

  138. jeanine4truth says:


  139. Mike_in_the_Tundra says:

    We? Speak for yourself. I’m gay and Latino. Although, I am a Bernie supporter, with words and finances, I will vote to keep Republicans out of the Whitehouse.

  140. baruchzed says:

    Wow, what a condescending little diatribe. My response is #DropOutHillary

  141. Francisco says:

    So full of yourselves. No we will not vote for Hillary. #BernieOrBust means Bernie or Bust. What did you think we were bluffing? Welcome to reality.

  142. Ronda Bandy says:

    I agree. He’s big on addressing climate change. It would have been smarter for her to talk about jobs that come with switching to renewable energy sources instead of lying. It makes her look untrustworthy and that’s a big part of why I see her as such.

  143. Aravosis is a stooge attempting to fashion something solid from the same trolley problem logic Clinton supporters have been for months now, that it’s “your fault” if Trump is elected because, well, people like Clinton have helped migrate politics from objective platforms to a venue where emotion and subjective opinion are more valuable tools.

    You might as well say that it’s Clinton supporters against the wall for backing the least-liked candidate in a long while, one who can’t be pinned to a specific agenda because she’s said something that opposes everything else she’s said at some point. The problem with that pesky democracy thing is that people can vote as they wish (or refrain,) and if Clinton had paid more attention to what was happening in the country as opposed to those “pragmatic political realities,” this problem would have been obvious.

  144. I worked in a sales office where a guy dropping 250k a year into his bank account couldn’t spell four letter words.

    You can have both, in other words.

  145. Atheist Ghostbuster says:

    You and IQ in the same sentence is an oxymoron. Now Shillary is a different story, one must be highly intelligent to be such a good liar and convince so many sheeple to follow her in spite of all the evidence that she is as corrupt as water is wet!

  146. captcorajus . says:

    Trump/ Hillary. Same result.

  147. Brent Pennington says:

    Bernie Sanders probably hates coal worse than Clinton. He just had the savvy not to agree with her and garner those votes she lost.

  148. Brent Pennington says:

    So you mean during the weeks following 9/11 you didn’t want someone to pay? We all can agree now that going into Iraq wasn’t the right move, but no one in their right mind would have voted against that war.

  149. Brent Pennington says:

    Hillary was a Senator six years before Bernie was elected to the Senate. Yes, he has now been a Senator for about 1 year and 4 months longer than she was, but that’s hardly way longer.

  150. Terrina Knewon says:

    Bernie has been in the senate way longer than HRC.
    Citing a record of her short time there…..nice try, but no buy.

  151. Rainbird says:

    You need to get out and meet a few more women. There are a huge number of them that are voting for Clinton because they want to see a female president in their lifetime. If you deny this you are being naive. If you really believe it, you need to talk to a few more people. Maybe some women outside of your typical demographic.

  152. Rainbird says:

    You know what? To a cow, all other cows look different too. But to me, they all look the same. I vote for ideas and people, not for parties. The democratic party has shifted right and Clinton sits on the right side of that shifted party. This is not who I am. From where I sit, Hillary and Trump are two shades of the same red.

  153. Rainbird says:

    I guess it happens.

  154. Ronda Bandy says:

    No, I know and of course you’re right. Call it a mixture of wishful thinking and a little delusion. I believe it’s possible but the odds are beyond astronomical. I’m registered and am ready to go. If Trump and Clinton have such low opinion ratings, How is Bernie not a shoe-in? That’s what I don’t understand. I’m pretty bummed about it, I’m not sure which of the other two are less frightening.

  155. UCF_Engineer says:

    Just throwing this out there. I’m a recently graduated (in my 20’s) white male with a job and I support Clinton. We do exist.

  156. UCF_Engineer says:

    LOL, you obviously don’t know how elections work. With a 3rd party on either side getting a serious number of electoral votes makes it impossible for anyone to get to 270. Do you know what happens next? Paul Ryan and the Republican controlled House choose the next president. So say hello to President Trump or Republican President (fill in the blank). Its the way the constitution is written, but it steals the election from the people. So if you feel disenfranchised now just because you didn’t register in time, wait until half or the entire country (depending on who they choose) becomes disenfranchised.

  157. UCF_Engineer says:

    Jesus Christ, you have not listened to one word Bernie Sanders has said have you? Sander’s and Trump’s messages could not be further apart. The only thing Clinton and Sanders disagree on is how far to push the country to the left. Trump would go in the complete opposite direction. GTFO of here pretending like you’re a Sanders supporter or a life long Dem. I know a Concern Troll when I see one.

  158. UCF_Engineer says:

    Put yourself in her shoes during that time. She was the senator for a state wanting revenge for the worst terrorist attack the world had ever seen. Bernie voted against the Brady bill 5 times b/c of his constituents, Clinton voted for the war b/c of hers. That’s what Representatives and Senators are supposed to do. They vote according to the will of their constituents.

  159. Ronda Bandy says:

    First of all, you don’t know her any better than I do unless you’re her family or a personal friend. Secondly, people lie. I don’t care what they say if their actions don’t reflect what they’re saying. You might take a look at how Bernie has voted during his years in the House and the Senate. He is very supportive of women’s rights. If you would bother to check his record, you would already know that. As a woman, I am ashamed when other women use the female card to sway votes. You’re giving the Donalds in this world more ammo. That is beyond sad. Bernie’s record shows he is honest and he doesn’t have to run campaigns with money from people that rob then make fun of the people he is supposed to be representing. The same can’t be said of Hillary. I hope you look it up. Have a nice day Jen.

  160. Nate Yuen says:

    Why? She hasn’t won the Democratic nomination yet. Stop being a shill for Hill.

  161. Anna Marie says:

    I will not vote for Hillary. She voted for the war, and is a hawk. That’s it.

  162. Jen L says:

    Well, you tried to talk some sense into them but they didn’t even read the article before telling you how wrong and corrupt you are. You can’t inform those who will not listen. I’m done with them. Screw them. There are more rational people than there are anti-Clinton zealots.

  163. Jen L says:

    If they blow up the system, they won’t be as affected by it as LGBT people, women, racial minorities, religious minorities, disabled people, etc. They’re “liberal” because they only care about straight, healthy white guys who aren’t filthy rich. The rest of us can pound sand, preferably as a living while in prison because we’re just not worthy enough to be around the likes of them.

  164. Jen L says:

    You just dodged when in fact, the response was valid. When you decide that women matter, come back to the part of the internet that isn’t reddit, 4chan, or 8chan.

    By the way, smartie pants, “something tells me *that it would be in *vain without….” The next time that I shoot up with the definition of liberal, I’ll let you know. By the way, your claim that she’s not liberal is disproved by the post that you responded to.

  165. Jen L says:

    ROFL Hypocrisy on women’s issues?

    Honey, please. She is world-renowned for her activism on women’s issues. She is quite literally the most effective and important activist on women’s issues, not just in the US but abroad. And what do you guys have to say about that?

    It’s not feminist to follow Obama’s directions and plan a military action in which women are killed, as though there are other types of military action, because killing women isn’t feminist. If we doubled your IQ you couldn’t catch up with her or me.

  166. Jen L says:

    No one is voting based on gender. That is a false attack against (in this case) Clinton supporters.

    You clearly don’t know this, but Sanders has used this cannard every time he has run against a woman. It pretends that the woman has no qualifications. It pretends that women vote sexism. It pretends that women who vote for a feminist activist (which Sanders is NOT) are unfair for considering their own needs.

    You’re basically saying that women’s needs and thoughts are so unimportant that you will neither consider them nor even listen to them. So you just repeated an attack that I just gave you five reasons for why it is a sexist attack, so that you can justify treating our needs as unimportant and our thoughts as non-existent.

    I’m offended because you’re sexist and as a woman, I like people who like women, people like Clinton.

  167. Jen L says:

    Sorry, honey, but if you believe that Clinton is a phoney, not only do you not think, you are also grossly misinformed.

    I have had it up to here with white dudes yelling about how terrible the woman is based on lies and then following that up with references to a blatant misogynist physically beating her.

    Grow up.

    By the way, I know my IQ and if yours were higher, you would have better grammar.

  168. Jen L says:

    And believing lies definitely brings out the worst in you.

    She is statistically more honest than every other candidate, even Sanders. She has not cheated in the least. What did she obstruct? The 15th Benghazi witch hunt against her? Fraud? What, you mean the people purged in NYC who according to a poll of only Sanders supporters showed that only Sanders supporters were affected despite entire blocks being affected? Entire blocks of Brooklyn that house only Sanders supporters?

    You could stand to look at some facts instead of unsourced, sexist thinkpieces on reddit.

  169. Jen L says:

    I don’t need someone to tell me how to think because I’m informed. If you support Sanders and do not support Clinton if she wins the nomination, you are not a progressive. You do not vote for rights for people other than straight Judeo-Christian white guys because Trump hates all of them.

    Promote your videos elsewhere.

  170. Jen L says:

    No, Trump is far right of Clinton on approximately every issue AND he is the actual poster boy for unearned wealth used for power. I’m a life-long person who thinks and if you think that the antithesis of Sanders is better than someone who voted with him 93% of the time, you are not.

  171. Jen L says:

    Maybe you don’t realize that someone disagreeing on which candidate is best isn’t a sign of ignorance.

    You clearly forgot Clinton’s accomplishments. She’s been fighting for a higher minimum wage since the 90s. She wrote the plan that turned into RomneyCare that turned into ObamaCare. People who KNOW HER, unlike you, disagree with you and say that she is a very nice and caring person. In fact, she always remembers the birthdays of friends and coworkers and wishes them a happy birthday.

    You would know these things if you weren’t so entrenched in the Bernie echochamber that you bothered to listen to the superdelegates who STATED THEIR REASONS FOR SUPPORTING HER or even if you’d bother to freaking google your own claims.

    If you write Bernie in, you vote against rights for women. Are you truly that dense?

  172. Jen L says:

    She followed her boss’s orders. Do you not know how work works?

    You should have read the article because Trump is worse on that one issue that you harp on.

  173. Susan Richards says:

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  174. Shorehon says:

    Lies, cheating, obstruction, fraud and the frustration of fighting the machine, as well as the refusal of others to look at the facts, can bring out the vile in the best of us.

  175. pattybt says:

    Nah – it will be YOUR fault for voting for a neo con like HRC. She will lose to Trump and we could have a true progressive like Bernie but people like you prefer to support war hawk, oligarchs. People with no sense of truth or ethics.

  176. bootzo says:

    To blame the 2% Nader voters for the Bush disaster and not the 48% or less that voted for Bush is just unfair and pointless here.

  177. Johann Haggard says:

    I have seen these videos, the last word to describe them is sane. It has a ballistic and vile tone. Sad is the best word. As someone equally in favor of Clinton and Sanders, this is as pathetic and radically temperamental as it gets.

  178. Noitatsidem Eht says:

    Hillary is the embodiment of the Military industrial complex. I voted for Obama to end war, but Hillary as secretary of state wouldn’t have any of that!

  179. Kenneth Sullivan says:

    “It doesn’t matter who is in the White House, Gore or Bush…” R. Nader 2000

    That worked well didn’t it? But hey, for the “low, low price” of 4,500 US service men and women dead, 2 trillion dollars wasted, and a half million (give or take a few thousand) Iraqi lives; you all got to maintain your Purity.

    You showed us all. Didn’t you?

    I encourage you all to visit your local VA hospital: The difference between the two is on clear display there.

  180. JM says:

    Sure, go on forever for al I care. Your list contains slivers of soundbites without context. My vote is with LIBERAL Clinton, a hard-working and brilliant WOMAN. I will not be shamed by men for voting for a very qualified liberal woman. If by some miracle it is Sanders, I will happily vote for him. Many Bernie supporters are proving to be kind of whiny and tending toward tantrums because they aren’t getting their way. Childishly, they would rather blow up the system because they can’t have things turn out the way they want.

  181. Ronda Bandy says:

    Maybe you don’t realize Hillary takes money from the same banks that made fun of the homeless people that they had illegally foreclosed on. Did you not just watch her lie about her position on coal? Hillary only represents herself and the corporations buying her. She isn’t going to stand up for anyone else once she’s in. Did she think we’d forget? She isn’t shooting fish in a barrel like she thinks she is and rigging NY isn’t easing our anger. I can not pretend she’s a good or caring person. I will write Bernie in. A great many of his other supporters will do the same. With the independent votes, I believe he could win that way.

  182. Atheist Ghostbuster says:

    You did not answer the question! WHERE DO YOU WANT TO START????
    -Support for war based on LIES = “Liberal”?
    -Support for the overthrow of democratically elected leftist governments = “Liberal”?
    -Against gay marriage (changed later of course for political expediency) = “Liberal”?
    -Receiving MILLIONS of dollars through a foundation to help women from Saudi Arabia (one of the most oppressive countries in the world for women) = “Liberal”/
    – Attacking women that were sexually abused by her husband = “Liberal”?
    -Taking hundreds of millions of dollars from Wall Street for speeches and not releasing the transcripts = “Liberal”?
    -supporting trade deals that kill jobs = “Liberal”?
    -taking money from the prison lobby = “Liberal”?

    I could go on forever, but something tells me it would be in vein without you first looking up the definition of “liberal”.

  183. JM says:

    Hillary was the 11th most liberal senator her time in the Senate. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/hillary-clinton-was-liberal-hillary-clinton-is-liberal/ I am not blinded by gender. I have voted for many men. : )

  184. Atheist Ghostbuster says:

    You’re correct and that only shows she was never a progressive, but rather a republican light and that’s why she’s been courting republican donors and voters….a much more natural fit for her :)

  185. Atheist Ghostbuster says:

    Where would you like me to start…..her war mongering & support for overthrowing DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders, hypocrisy on women’s issues, selling access, mass deportation, horrible trade deals, human rights, prison reform, fracking, LBGT positions, etc…
    Please do tell me and I would be more than happy to provide you a comprehensive list.

    BTW, I would hope that your are not so blinded by your gender based support that you would actually deny public record. There is no debate as to whether she actually said, did, flip flopped or supported these anti-progressive issues, but rather the only debate is whether she can spin her way out of them and convince people like you (which she obviously done) that there was some sort of “justification” for it at the time.

  186. JM says:

    The angry Bernie crowd is becoming a turnoff, and actually hurting Bernie’s efforts. Take a look in the mirror and find some fault there too. There is plenty to go around.

  187. JM says:

    Okay, go ahead. Cite facts and references.

  188. Atheist Ghostbuster says:

    Are you offended because you fall firmly into those voting based on gender or is that you firmly into the Clinton apologists camp? It really doesn’t matter how many factual anti-progressive issues are brought to you shills for Hillary, you will simply point to Trump, as if his crap nullifies hers!

  189. Mike_in_the_Tundra says:

    Obviously, you’re not Latino.

  190. Stew Winston says:

    No, John U do not get it, even though U think U do! I’ll support Sanders to the very bitter end if it comes to that. But if he is not the Dem’s nominee then I’m with Trump… I’m a life long Dem. Unlike U I dont believe in voting for someone just because they have a D instead of an R by their name. Trump is better choice than Hillary when it comes to what best for America!

  191. Vibro says:

    @cliff – That is the biggest douchbag, most arrogant, and completely idiotic thing I have read by a sanders supporter. people like you are a lost cause.

  192. Shorehon says:

    NEVER Hillary. Here’s a video by the Sane Progressive – whose posts are some of, if not THE sanest commentaries on the internet! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh47_lElnjc

  193. Richard Ferrar says:

    So, if she gets the nomination, you’ll be writing in Bernie’s name, staying home or voting Green. Then, after the election, we can thank you for President Trump. Of course you, “don’t fall in line. IQs are higher than most of Hillary’s followers.” and “She’s a phony. And Trump will beat her like a drum.” Really? I would posit that Trump, first of all, is champing at the bit for the opportunity run against Bernie. The only thing worse than being a woman, to the cretins that support him, is being a Socialist, or a Communist, which is how they’ll paint him.
    You say that you are “not going to vote for her simply on her gender as so many of her supporters will.” I agree. She is the most qualified person in the race. On either side. I’m sure you disagree. You even threw President Obama under the bus.
    I’ve always been a Liberal Democrat. I’ll vote for the person who wins the Democratic nomination for President. I am hoping that’ll be Hillary Clinton. I’ve always liked Bernie Sanders and I’ll vote for him should he win the nomination. He has always been an “Independent”, and I’ve respected that. I don’t know what party Bernie’s supporters are in. I’ve read that they identify themselves as Democrats. A doubtful assertion given their lack of understanding of the process.
    If a person, or group of people fail to get the notion of doing something they may not like, for ‘the greater good’, I don’t know if I’d be touting their higher IQs.
    My #1 priority is preventing a psychopath from occupying the White House.

  194. Richard Ferrar says:

    So you’re voting for Trump, proudly, idealistically.

  195. Joanne Murphy says:

    Yes, yes, we’ve heard it all. Bernie is the saint and Hillary is all things not saint. Oh, and talk about arrogance! “IQs are higher blah blah blah…”

  196. True American says:

    What a sad little bunch of sore losers, can’t have their way so they would let the likes of Trump be the leader of our country, cowboy up and vote democratic whether it be Hillary the more qualified candidate or Bernie

  197. Cliff Olney says:

    Absolute nonsense. John, you’re working a different crowd over here on Bernie’s side.
    We actually think. We don’t fall in line. IQs are higher than most of Hillary’s followers. I want a empathetic, compassionate president, and if she happens to be a woman, fine. But I’m not going to vote for her simply on her gender as so many of her supporters will.
    She WILL have to earn our votes by doing more than ‘having a paid surrogate throw out the Trump fear card’.
    Clinton’s had her plenty of chances to show us she wants our vote but she is arrogant.
    She thinks she knows better than us. Like Obama, she says, “I’ve got this”.
    We see ‘he didn’t’. Neither does she. neither ‘got it’.
    Read anything about her support for the Honduran coup?
    Why we have Honduran children showing up at our southern border; trying to escape from the brutal Honduran military government that Clinton supported?
    But she’ll ‘give them a lawyer before she deports them back’; to something she advocated for: more American imperialism.
    I supported her in 2008 and then eventually supported Obama.
    Have either stood with workers? Ended the ‘generational wars? Rebuilt our infrastructure?
    Ended the outsourcing of the American Dream? Jobs?
    No. Both are neoliberals. Your argument is, well, laughable. Either she picks Bernie as VEEP, should he not get the nomination himself or get ready to win without his supporters’ support.
    She’s a phony. And Trump will beat her like a drum; like he did with all 16 GOP candidates.
    My perspective? She wants the presidency for herself; not for what she can do for the American people. Bernie wants to help us. She doesn’t engender trust. She’s not authentic.
    She doesn’t have the luxury of selecting someone else as a running mate as did Obama in 08.

  198. Jackp says:

    I feel the same way. The DNC did this country a big disservice because Wasserman-Schultz rigged the game to favour Hillary. Bernie and Trump let the people decide without corrupting the system.. The DNC could have stopped all this voter fraud but they didn’t and now they’re laundering money from the DNC to Hillary’s campaign. I’d vote for Trump and take my chances rather than vote for Hillary who will sell the presidency to the highest bidder at the hard working families expense. No Thanks!!!!!

  199. Gladys Kravitz says:

    i find it extremely unfathomable that berners would go for trump.

  200. Gladys Kravitz says:

    yea, i’m going to end up giving her my vote in texas at the top of the ticket. i suspect that we’ll see quite a bit of ticket splitting going on this year. JMO.

  201. PDQ says:

    John’s probably angling for a position in Hillary’s administration. THAT is why it’s our duty to vote for Sanders. He just neglected to mention it.

  202. James says:

    Fuck you. You don’t get to tell us what our “duty” is. You supported a bank-fueled warmongering corrupt little gas bag who can’t even tell you what Goldman paid her for (I wonder?), you elected Trump all by your myopic little self.

  203. AnnGarrison says:

    Oh go fuck yourself.

  204. Colby Smith says:

    You have a very valid point. The major concern I have is the autocratic personality. Checks and balances would really need to be in full effect.

  205. markpkessinger says:

    Hillary has recently made it clear that she neither needs nor wants my vote or my support, nor that of any other Sanders supporter.

  206. Chris says:

    #BERNIEORBUST – IF THE DNC wants their “groomed” candidate Hillary Clinton to win so badly, that they would do ANYTHING they can for Bernie to lose…(voter suppression, MM covereage, ect.) then it’s THEIR FAULT if Trump wins the presidency. I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils compared to a candidate that actually gives a shit. #BernieorWatchItAllBurn welcome to 2016 American Politics.

  207. NeonPhyzics says:

    If you want to move the party to the left – vote for a liberal congress – a HRC president would back a liberal congress if that there is solid support. How do you think the tea party has made such political in-roads??? They voted in ultra conservative congressmen and women and hold THEM accountable for the conservative agenda regardless of who is president. Liberals cut off their nose to spite their face which is why progressive legislation fails despite the country actually polling center left on most issues.

  208. Thomas says:

    Or, it would convince the middle and middle right that Democrats can’t win the presidency just like they can’t seem to win the Senate and House. Those people are still Americans (just like the right is) and they have their own values and life goals. Demonizing them and suggesting they should get hurt by a Trump presidency to teach them some sort of lesson is remarkably uncaring. I’d rather move forward than backward, and this idea of a ‘revolution’ happening if we can just get to treat our population a little(or a lot) crappier is ignoring history, and how horrible things truly need to get for people to do this, and how unpredictable it is to have a real ‘revolution.’

  209. Thomas says:

    But the majority of her policies align more with Sanders than Trump. You can’t just saw she’s as bad as Trump when most of what she says is progressive- just not progressive enough. Yes, she is more hawkish, but honestly, to say she is the same as someone suggesting there should be registries for certain Americans is just illogical.

  210. Thomas says:

    thank you

  211. Dolores Pap says:

    I’ve read enough to know it’s not for me..It’s not my bible..

  212. GoBernie says:

    he himself profited but everyone around him suffered. He exploits people. Thats not how a country should be run.

  213. GoBernie says:

    You obviously have not read the whole book.

  214. GoBernie says:

    take your scare tactics elsewhere. They’re not working here~

  215. GoBernie says:

    Thanks to people like you who shoot them down. Neither did the 99% till Bernie came along.

  216. GoBernie says:

    Biggest load of crap I’ve ever heard. Vote for Jill Stein is Bernie’s not an option. Voting for hillary is the same as voting for trump

  217. Butch1 says:

    Thanks for your important contribution to this conversation.

  218. revbones says:

    And won’t until more people vote Green allowing them to grow and receive funding. I think the Green Party will experience significant growth this year…

  219. disqus_IZT2OSPefQ says:

    Don’t let the door hit yer ass on the way out!

    Vote for whomever you want — even if it is a self-important nothing like Jill Stein. Just don’t complain if Trump wins, everything turns to shit, and your “revolution” still doesn’t happen.

  220. disqus_IZT2OSPefQ says:

    This conversation is like listening into two mental patients arguing in the rubber room.

  221. lynchie says:

    by Jon Rappoport
    October 5, 2012

    For decades, disaffected Americans have been trudging to the polls and voting for the lesser
    of two evils. That’s how they register their preference for a
    presidential candidate. Choices based on that dubious strategy seem to work for the short-term (at best). But in the long run, the law of diminishing returns sets in.
    Term after presidential term, the lesser of two evils lowers the quality of life for everyone
    and keeps nudging the decline of the American Republic. The hole to dig out of becomes deeper, and successive presidents—each one the lesser of two evils—are less capable and willing to do the necessary digging.
    That’s the story of leadership in America. But prompted by new and more desperate created crises, citizens resort to the “lesser”strategy every four years, believing they must.
    Carter-Reagan, Reagan-Mondale, Bush-Dukakis, Bush-Clinton, Bush-Gore, Bush-Kerry,
    Obama-McCain, Obama-Romney.
    “I’m not that enthusiastic about either man, but I have to choose one. I have to go with the lesser of two evils, because this country is in real trouble.”
    Where does it stop?
    Look, this time I’m picking the lesser of two evils, because the national crisis is so
    terrible. But next time, I promise I’ll do something else.”
    Really? What else will you do? Hope the sun comes out?
    The voter who is chronically addicted to the lesser of two evils is like a man in debt who borrows to pay it off. Each time he borrows, the debt gets bigger. He says, “I know this is crazy, but what else can I do? Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul is the lesser of two evils. If I don’t do it, I’m sunk. I promise I’ll straighten this mess out—but not right now. I have a payment coming due. I have to borrow again.”
    And just like the federal debt, which keeps swelling, the election of one lesser after another as president keeps expanding the national misery. Finally, the idea that voters can step outside the two-party system to find a real president who actually believes in the Constitution seems like a pipe dream, because all the prior lessers have screwed things up so badly, have sold so out badly, have trampled on the Constitution so crazily…the shell-shocked public accepts these lessers as the status quo.
    At that point, people say, “Stop all this nonsense about a third-party candidate. Get real. We
    have to choose from the two candidates in front of us. That’s what life and elections are all about. Be an adult. Make your decision. Go for the lesser of two evils.”
    If this is wisdom, a strawberry is navigating a space ship to Jupiter. Hmm. You know, that’s
    not a bad idea. If we could insert four or five hundred new DNA
    strands in a strawberry, give it artificial eyes, install tiny computers in its skin, it might work. Captain Strawberry. It’s better than having a human pilot the craft. The distance is so great,
    a human could never sustain concentration for the duration of the voyage. All in all, the strawberry is the lesser of two evils.”
    A national poll might prove quite interesting. Ask people, “In the presidential election, are
    you voting for the lesser of two evils? Are you voting for the candidate who is “less bad” than the other guy?”
    Better yet, let’s have a candidate who says, up front, “Hi, I’m Fred Goober. I’m the lesser of two evils, and I’m running for president. Let’s not kid each other. You know, I know, and everybody knows that my opponent and I are both morons and sell-outs. We got where we are by lying and stealing. What else did you expect? We’re both puppets for larger forces. But at least I’m willing to admit it. And I believe, in my heart, that I’m the lesser of two evils. What do you say? Cut me a break. I really want to live in the White House and be the
    commander-in-chief. And my wife? Don’t get me started on what she
    So the next time a “smarter, wiser” friend, who “really knows how the world works,” tells you you’ve got to choose the lesser of two evils, realize who’s smart and who the idiot is.

  222. lynchie says:

    But Obama’s DOJ did not put a single one of these bankers in jail. We carry the blame for that and not going after GW and his cabal of creeps who killed thousands of our kids with an illegal war.

  223. lynchie says:

    Nope not me. won’t, can’t, never, no way.

  224. Rainbird says:

    I wouldn’t give up hope if I were you. Hillary will garner a great number of republican voters. She is not really that much different than they. So though very few true liberals would ever consider voting for her, you might get her into office yet. I can’t help but think it is going to be an interesting time for you though. Spewing your pitch to the republicans. Trying to garner her votes. Maybe you can get a gig blogging over at Breitbart or Fox. If there were tickets available, I might even buy one to see that. They will likely go cheaper than even the $27 I sent to Bernie today.

  225. Dolores Pap says:

    Sorry- I was off by 10 percent..I ‘thought’ I heard that 91% number on NPR this am. I’ve had a look on the internet and you are right- I was off..


    Sanders must win about 81 percent of them to reach 2,383, according to an analysis from NBC News

  226. Joe Ghoul says:

    Amen. He repeatedly capitulated to the Republicans’ demands and this poor soul calls that pragmatism. Obama immediately made an about face and went corporatist, and providing “universal healthcare” that’s just a mandate to buy insurance from a pool of insurance companies. His gift to them.

  227. Joe Ghoul says:

    The prospect of a Hillary or Trump presidency are both nauseating. But one of the reasons I’ll never vote for her is pretty much this. First I must say that I despise Hillary a little more than Trump. Trump is a shyster and a demagogue, but the possibility of him getting any of his policies(?) through Congress is pretty slim, especially if Democrats win back at least the House or the Senate– I take what little comfort I can from this. Hillary, on the other hand, being the center-right, hawish person that she is(let’s be clear, she isn’t anywhere near progressive) would be Obama and Bush rolled into one. 4 more years of pro-corporatist shill policies.I also can’t in good conscience vote for someone that I know will continue bombing civilians, continue to support Netanyahu without condition, and will most likely be wrapped in even more scandals (scandal seems to follow her around like flies to the aft end of a horse). So no, Mr. Aravosis, I will not be giving Hillary Rodham Clinton my support. I’d like to keep whatever is left of my soul intact.

  228. the_rebis says:

    They are asking for 10,000 to 15,000 dollars for regional field coordinators.

    Since this is a capitalistic society and money does matter (to be taken seriously in getting a political machine built)…Bernie raised 22,000,000 last month. He has raised over 182,000,000 during his primary run. Just saying….

  229. the_rebis says:

    The Green Party has no organizational ability whatsoever.

  230. the_rebis says:

    How many American lives were lost in the illegal Iraq War? How much wealth was taken away from the middle class Americans due to the Great Recession by Wall Street banksters funny money games? A couple of examples of Republican ideology that has had lasting damage to Americans.

  231. Rainbird says:

    Yup, I just gave $27. Feeling the Burn! :-)

  232. NeonPhyzics says:

    no – he was always pragmatic. The left abandoned the party in 2009 (as always), so the democratic congress was challenged by the tea party which caused them to shift to the middle to get legislation passed. If the progressives would show up, they would not have been afraid of the tea party and radical health care reform would have been on the table. You can’t elect one person to president and expect anything to change – that is not how government works. You have to vote for progressives up and down the ballot every time, that is how a republican minority has maintained power in this country….liberal apathy

  233. AMa says:

    Actually its around about 68% to get delegate plurality, assuming the superdelegates wouldn’t overturn that. Not an easy task, but definitely one still worth a fight for, unlike your overblown statistic.

  234. Rainbird says:

    We were behind him. He turned corporate conservative once he was elected. He energized us to think big and make our liberal left the path into the future. Then once elected, shifted immediately to the middle.

  235. AMa says:

    This kind of thinking is what gets us into these situations to begin with. As long as the politicians can get away with throwing crap at us, they keep doing it. Hillary is the standard (and possibly somewhat smellier) pile of sh*t we usually get. And then people get fed up to the point that a candidate like Trump actually stands a chance. What if we have a Trump in every presidential election from now on, do we just fold and accept the slightly better alternative for the rest of our being?

  236. Rainbird says:

    “Tough luck” is what you are saying to the millions of people who have worked hard but now their jobs are being sent over seas thanks to Hillary being paid to pass the TPP. “Have some poison” is what you are saying to the people who don’t want neonictanoids in their food and water. Who don’t want genetically modified food. All because Hillary wants those millions of dollars from pesticide companies. “Sorry about that earthquake” to the people who live close to fracking because Hillary gets the oil checks. “Daddy will be home in a couple more years” to those families who have someone rotting in the privatized prison systems because there is big money for Hillary.

    If I were you, I would deeply question your values. I am quite comfortable with mine.

  237. feckless says:

    So Trump is the new standard? As long as your “not trump” i have to vote for you?
    We need more than the politics of fear to win.

  238. Rainbird says:

    No, Bernie’s programs would be neutral. We need as a country to start deciding what we want to spend our money on. Why are we spending 1.2 Trillion dollars (enough to fund Bernie’s education plan for 200 years) on the F-35 airplane that won’t fly? You think the congress is going to fall in line behind a Clinton? For one thing, she doesn’t want any change. She talks about doing but does nothing. –That is a quote from Obama.

  239. Rainbird says:

    And Hillary STILL remains a doubtful winner against Trump.

    All that has to happen is the establishment contrived Super Delegates (Who have not voted yet even though Clinton News Network and others report them as voted) need to vote for the person who all polls say would win against Trump.

  240. 1nancy2 says:

    Just wrote my 4th, maybe 5th Bernie Check and why not? He beat back Hill in IN, didn’t he? Why is that hideous Deb Downer-Schultz still head of DNC? She s*ck$; can’t stand her or Hill. I think we should have a Don-Bern matchup; I’d love it. Don will beat Hill back; plus, she’s an awful candidate.

  241. NeonPhyzics says:

    now you sound like an entitled ass – Obama never said “I” am the change we are looking for…he said “WE are the ones we have been waiting for” – but people just voted for him – forgot about the congressional races, governors, and ballot measures that ALSO supported those progressive ideals and now want to complain that nothing changed…I wonder why?

  242. NeonPhyzics says:

    I don’t want to argue about presidential votes (the electorial college helps Clinton here), I want to know if Bernie-or-Bust people going to look at the rest of the ballot when patting themselves on the back for their write-in vote? Revolutions are NOT started from the top down, they are built from the bottom up. The current commander and chief told us that. It seems to me that to some “Bernie-or-bust” means, Bernie and fuck every judge, congress person, senator, mayor and governor on the ballot (even though those positions have a significantly greater impact on local lives and legislation). If this block goes to the polls in the numbers they claim and vote down ballot – it won’t matter who the president is – because the actual law makers would be empowered for progressive change by the people. I bothers me how many people only show up every 4 years for one vote and have no idea why nothing changes

  243. Butch1 says:


  244. United Forces says:

    Sorry but my vote is my own and as a member of the largest voting blocks in America; both millennial and indy,I won’t support a corporate Dem who aligns more with Republican’s from the Bob Dole era than anything else. Hillary has only hindsight whereas Bernie has foresight. I can’t support someone who is constantly changing positions on every single issue and then lies often.

    If Bernie isn’t the nominee, there is another woman in this race who represents my views and her name is Jill Stein. #JillBeforeHill

  245. Erik Bray says:

    “Go die”, is basically what you’re saying to people with pre-existing conditions who would likely lose their health insurance without a president who will protect the ACA, all so that you get to make a Principled Stand for your Values. If that’s the case then your “values” are worth shit.

  246. Dolores Pap says:

    Rainbird- what makes you think I ‘have to settle’ ? I am totally against Bernie’s platforms as they are unaffordable for the nation unless the taxes on all of us are raised by astronomic amounts; they will increase the $18 Trillion dollar deficit; restrict trade; throw billions of dollars of tax payer money into the black hole that is higher education; increase the size of government, etc.. I also believe that none of his platforms has a chance of being passed by Congress. I want a pragmatic leader who can compromise with Congress and get the country moving again. Sanders won’t. GovTrack ranks him in the bottom 2 percent of senators in writing bills with
    bipartisan cosponsorship, and the Lugar Center (founded by former colleague Sen.
    Richard Lugar) ranked him 90th on its Senate Bipartisan

  247. SinPantuflas says:

    Are u one of the thusands of internet trolls being payed by HRC to rigg the internet?

  248. Dolores Pap says:

    But Hillary STILL remains the presumptive nominee ; Sanders would have to garner 92% of the remaining voters in all the remaining primaries to win..

  249. Rainbird says:

    Yes! Very well said!

  250. Rainbird says:

    Why should we compromise? Why do you? We could make real change in this country happen if we get behind someone who can dare to think big. I voted for change with Obama and what I got was short changed.

  251. Rainbird says:

    I vote for an idea. I don’t vote for a party. I would rather vote for Bernie and I might write him in. Or, I will vote for Jill Stein. I think it is too bad you will settle for Hillary. The democratic party used to dream big. Now it gets paid to status quo.

  252. Rainbird says:

    And Bernie wins again! :-)

  253. Dolores Pap says:

    Almost every comment below supports the argument of the writer, and to put it simply- these disappointed Sanders’ supporters would rather cut off their nose to spite their face..

  254. P Doerner P says:

    Agreed, except for the “bitch” part. Nothing personal; not against her gender. She’s on the wrong side of most issues, which is to say, she’s a moderate Republican and a warhawk.

  255. emacdo says:

    I’ll never understand, ever, the sort of desperation that drives this sort of appeal – patronizing the very people you’re appealing to by describing them as whiny children in a snit because their guy didn’t win. Being blind to the possibility that any leftie could loathe your candidate for substantive reasons is _precisely_ why you find yourself in this unfortunate position.

  256. vallegirl says:

    Have you ever noticed how Democrats never thank Ross Perot for putting Clinton in office? Objectively speaking, he raked in a ton more votes than Nader did and likely siphoned them off of Bush the Elder.

    But we’ve used that model as the only way to win elections ever since, even though, looking at the way the election played out, 92 was sui generis and whoever the Democratic nominee was would have won because he wasn’t the Republican nominee.

    Nader didn’t even get 3% of the vote in 2000 v Perot’s 19%. Even in the mighty Florida, he only got 90K votes, while Gore lost 300K Dem votes TO BUSH. So it’s time to stop using 92 as a gameplan. Clinton didn’t win it on the strength of his policies, he won it by accident.

  257. Samantha says:

    There is not one chance that I’d vote for this pre-ordained bitch, Hillary Clinton. The DNC made the choice before the nomination process ever began to place Clinton … even before Sanders came onto the scene. Well, as the Brits would say, “sorry mate, but we’re not playing it that way.”. I would rather die than vote for Hillary Cinton. It will be Sanders or it will be Trump. Next time, maybe the DNC will think twice before they decide THEY are going to choose the nominee.

  258. Ryan Sealand says:


    Our vote doesn’t count.

    Don’t fucking tell me that it does.

    We had a god damn choice between a murdering slut and a hero.

    Murdering slut.

    Or Hero.

    I don’t know about you, but when I read shit like, “California throws out 500,000 votes”

    I want to kill someone.

    At this point I want a very, VERY, VeRrrrrRrrrrryyy Blood soaked civil war.

    It makes me go, do I need to make this sacrifice? As we inch closer to July, my nerves are screaming.


    I can’t take it anymore.

    I don’t know what to do.

    My people are blind.

    I cry every night I’m in the shower, wondering if America will ever wake up.

    It’s been 16 years man, 16.

    Im tired, My youth is fading. I thought Obama was gonna pull through, but then he had his hand in with the monsters of the underworld and when you take that kind of money, they don’t let you use it on prosperity.

    We don’t have time to wait four more years.

  259. DaveII says:

    So Trump will?

  260. DaveII says:

    We lived through Bush and we are still paying for his mistakes and will be for the rest of my life.

    Four years of President Trump, Majority Leader McConnell and Speaker Ryan? Minimum wage laws? Gone.
    Roe v Wade? Overturned.
    Griswold v Connecticut? Overturned.
    The EPA? Dismantled.
    Social Security? Privatized.
    Medicare? Repealed.
    Gay Marriage? Outlawed.
    Abortion? Outlawed.

    And that’s just the first year.

    Either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton will be the next president. It’s a binary decision, on or off.

  261. DaveII says:

    Bernie has never faced the fact free zone of a general election campaign against the Republicans. 24/7 commercials showing Bernie’s face morphing into Mao’s. Yea that’s going to play real well in Ohio.
    The GOP was able to turn Kerry’s Silver Star into a liability. Bernie is a target rich environment.

  262. Butch1 says:

    One thing I’ve learned about the Democratic Party is that they would not learn a thing from a lesson of losing this election if the Bernie supporters did NOT support Clinton and voted for an Independent candidate instead as you suggest. They would look upon this as just another “Ralph Nader steal the election” loss and that it would be all OUR fault for not going along with the Establishment instead of not realizing that it is THEY who are on the wrong path and the people are not going to support a party that doesn’t listen to them anymore.

  263. anabelle kyrie says:

    Didn’t make it up, Miss Amy… 14% said they wouldn’t vote for Killary… 63% said they would swap parties and vote for Trump.. Mind you now… this is only if Bernie is NOT the nominee! Educate yourself girl… are you’re going to get left behind!

  264. Mike_in_the_Tundra says:

    Oh, I get it. He’s a liar.

  265. Gail Maya-g Taylor says:

    Wow, I could really use the lottery numbers in your crystal ball! Look – He won’t if people like you ditch on him. If everyone stood their guns in their truth, it would be no contest.

  266. Colby Smith says:

    The author fails to realize that the Republican primary is made up of some really angry, irrational, illogical people. In order to win the primary, Trump needs to resonate with that “customer base” because IT IS a job interview. We are paying these people to manage the country, not to use it as their own personal property or resource to fulfill their personal agenda.

    Trump knows this, and as someone who has been wildly successful in marketing casinos, hotels, resorts and apartments, he knows what and how to trigger “buy” responses in people. When you look at the “customer pool” he needed to convert, you can see that he produced the exact product and experience they wanted to buy. In this specific business transaction people paid with votes, not money.

    As an avid student of economics, fiscal policy, and regulatory impact I’m convinced Trump would be the best economic president we would have since Eisenhower. He knows full well that a strong middle and upper middle class is the foundation to a prosperous country, he built his empire on it.

  267. judybrowni says:

    I realize its a complete waste of time to inject facts/reality into the Bernie Bros piss moan Hillary=Hitler=Trump, but of course its nonsense:

  268. mysticl says:

    You know what I actually don’t care anymore … in my opinion she is JUST as bad as Trump she just does it with more finesse. She has not earned my support and in fact she isn’t even TRYING to and for you to ask it, no DEMAND it is, quite frankly, insulting. Hillary has gone out of her way to insult, demean and ridicule Bernie supporters, she has backpedaled on SEVERAL key democratic ideals, she will NOT be the liberal progressive leader I want to see in the White House… Bernie supporters are NOT just soft Hillary supporters who just need a nudge to realize we were REALLY Hillary supporters all along … we can actually think for ourselves and we have. She is establishment and NOT the leader the world needs right now … she is for kicking the can down the road … and that is not GOOD enough anymore … we need a visionary … we need someone who will FIGHT for the people not the corporations, we do NOT need someone who has to be PUSHED to make the right decision … we want someone to LEAD with the right decision. Bernie all the way … he polls BETTER than Hillary gainst Trump … if you were sincere about REALLY beating Trump you’d switch YOUR vote to Bernie … oh and all the crocodile tears and hand wringing that Bernie won’t get anything DONE with the current GOP, well I have one thing to say to that … Hillary won’t EITHER …

  269. SinPantuflas says:

    I would say that a responsible vote would be not to vote for Hillary, which is a supporter of tumbling and bombing regimes if they do not comply to America’s neo-liberal policies (e.g. Honduras, Lybia).
    In any case, on my humble opinion, voting for Jill Stein (and probably letting Trump run the WH for 4 years) would be the morally sound thing to do.. (Also hoping that the Republicans will not let the country turn into a fascist playground)
    A Trump presidency would be a slap in the face for the democratic establishment, and could help move the democratic party in the right direction: to the left.

  270. pattybt says:

    I think it’s your duty to stop writing inane drivel. We will vote for whomever we damn well please and it looks like people don’t take too kindly to being told that they must support a war loving, free trade endorsing, H1B visa supporting, flip flopping, computer illiterate, scandal ridden, big bank/Wall Street/lobbyist loving criminal and liar. Nope! You know where you can put your “duty”.

  271. Amy Fried says:

    How can Bernie win? He’s not going to be the nominee.

  272. Amy Fried says:

    You just made that up. The exit poll in NY found that 14% of Sanders supporters aid they wouldn’t vote for Clinton.

  273. Amy Fried says:

    The two parties have never been more different.

  274. quax says:

    So spoke every commie who didn’t support the SPD in the Weimar republic.

    And no, given Trump Goodwin’s law does no longer apply. You will own him.

    You will own it, if he rounds up million of migrants workers to make good on his word.

  275. Moderator4 says:

    Gretchen, this is the third time you have posted this same video. You can stop this now.

  276. Thanks, you’re sweet.

  277. Gretchen says:

    No “informed” democrat could vote for Hillary because she is no democrat! Thank god our founding fathers did not have an attitude like yours.

  278. Gretchen says:


    I used to support her. Then I saw this and could not believe it, I researched it and I assure you its all true and then some. Hillary advocated for the US to overthrow Libya to feed off its oil and resources, her unsafe server led to Ambassador Christopher Stevens murder. Whether intentionally or not is debatable, besides slaughtering people for monetary gain and being responsible for the death of the Americans in Libya those Americans were there funneling weapons to extremists in a country Hillary had just helped to destroy. Libya’s leader was tortured on national television and she laughed about it on a TV interview. 1/3 of her foundation donations come from big pharmaceutical companies, destroying American live’s, while she makes sure it’s covered up. You are Welcome!

  279. Gretchen says:

    Your elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top.

  280. Consultant says:

    Really Hillary took 2 million dollars from hard core Zionists, the Saudi’s want a no fly zone over Syria while the Russians were flying there, she helped topple the elected government of Honduras, how could anyone do a worse job then her? Oh by the way I don’t support Trump but between Trump and Hillary I would have to go with the orange man with the Flock of Seagulls Hairdo. Hillary = War it is a given she has the same foreign policy ideas as Bush and Cheney. Do a little research it is easy to find it.

  281. Trump is as qualified to be president as one of the lesser Kardashians. No one, not even horrible Dominionist Ted Cruz is worse (though that is a very tough call). I’m sorry. I can’t take a grown adult who supports Trump for president seriously. I just can’t.

  282. Consultant says:

    He polls better then Hillary in the General. That is the problem Hillary supporters are out of touch. Her biggest donor is a hard core Zionist. The Saudis give over 2 million dollars to her foundation. Hillary = War in the middle east I will pass on that thank you.

  283. Consultant says:

    Trump is still better then Hillary.

  284. Consultant says:

    Hillary is a war candidate so I would prefer almost ANYONE except Ted Cruz to her. She actually bragged about Henry Kissinger being her mentor. Nope one more war in the middle east and you wont have to worry about your civle rights you will be living on the street or dead.

  285. Oh, for pete’s sake. How can a Bernie supporter not believe Bernie himself? He’s said on her worst day she’s infinitely better than Trump on his best. That’s not good enough right there?

  286. Yeah, I’ll buy that it was a lapse of judgment, that it was even for some a reason to question her decision making abilities. I doubt it will lead to much more than it already has, and don’t think it even approaches criminal, and certainly not Dubya-era crimes. Again, I could be wrong, I’ll freely admit. But I think this is wishful thinking from anti-Hillary folks, and FOX “News”-fed at that. Nothing came of blatant email shredding from W. Nothing came from the Valerie Plame thing or countless other legit, criminal, sometimes treasonous activities from that era. Hillary being indicted over this would be like Martha Stewart going to jail, to me. Pointless. But less likely by a whole lot.

  287. Crime Reporter says:

    Trump is to the left of Clinton on trade, saving Social Security and wars. You know what’s insane? Believing Clinton is a Democrat.

    FWIW, I’m not voting for Trump, either, but my logical track doesn’t go right to go left.

  288. Crime Reporter says:

    By offering us the right-wing part of the Party? No way.

    And, as for the article, telling me it’s my duty to vote for that piece of shit has made me even more determined to go third party. We lived through Bush. If we have to live through Trump to put the Democratic Party back on track, then so be it. The working class need and deserve a party to represent them.

  289. Crime Reporter says:

    A. Yes. The FBI has subpoenaed Clinton Foundation records as a result of their unsecure server investigation (it’s not an “email” investigation – the reason you think it’s nothing is because of this moniker.)

    B. It’s a very serious investigation into whether she exposed national security secrets to half the world by having classified and/or sensitive information on a server that did not even require an encrypted VPN with duel-authentication to connect from the Internet.

  290. If your principles align with Bernie Sanders, and you decide–if Bernie is no longer in the running–to effectively throw your vote to TRUMP? Yes = insane. It’s not what Bernie stands for, it’s not what Bernie has asked of his followers, it in no way logically tracks with your desired outcome.

  291. Sorry, Revbones, I was speaking more of the overall narrative, over many sites and media. I thought Jon left AmericaBlog a long time ago, and it really hasn’t been a destination site for me for a while. Maybe he’s been ACTUALLY anti-Bernie. But often, I’ve been jumped on in the same regard, and I’ve never said anything against the Sanders. I like him. I just don’t think he’s as electable as Hillary. That’s not Bernie bashing.

  292. IS there a Clinton Foundation scandal? I’ve heard innuendo, but anything beyond that? As for the email thing, I’d call it a scandlette. I’ll eat my words if it comes to anything, but I’d wager it will be as played out as Whitewater when it’s over. Maybe I’m wrong. It’s not ignoring as much as “if past is prologue.”

  293. tanya evans says:

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  294. revbones says:

    For you principles = insane I guess.

  295. revbones says:

    Sure, create a false narrative to go alone with all of Jon’s anti-Bernie articles. That’ll work.

  296. revbones says:

    Being innoculated to the truth by fake Republican scandals, doesn’t change the email scandal or the Clinton Foundation one. It’s disappointing that some choose to ignore reality.

  297. Funky Bluester says:

    I will not cast my vote for HRC. When I walk out of the booth in November I may leave behind a wasted vote but my integrity and dignity will be intact.

  298. No Hillary, not Ever. #Bernie2016 or Bust. √

  299. Bread Canful says:

    Wow, you dumb fuck, I don’t owe the Democratic party shit, nor do I owe lying corporatist Hillary anything. Seems like your idea of democracy is more like totalitarianism. I’m voting for whoever most supports my values, not corrupt establishment war hawks.

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  301. Earlenejcarson says:

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  302. It’s starting to seem like being pro-Hillary, or Bernie-neutral are seen as “anti-Bernie” by default. And that is so much like when conservatives claim ALL media that isn’t pro-conservative has a “liberal media bias” by default. It’s a false premise.

  303. I’d care that she’s corrupt if I thought she was. Instead, I remember the past 20+ years of conservatives trying to attach her to whatever-gate, and failing every time. The FBI is investigating the least sexy, driest “scandal” this side of Socks the Cat’s Christmas card list. I remember Bush/Cheney. If Mrs. Clinton were to be indicted for a lapse of judgment, after all we got from the Dubya administration was Scooter Libby? I mean, c’mon. No, none of that even compares to Trump getting SCOTUS. Sorry. But I’m not anti-Bernie. He somehow wins? He has my vote. I just don’t think he will, nor do I think he could win the general. That’s the only thing I’m concerned about at this point.

  304. 1nancy2 says:

    S: No words to add. You said it all. Thanks. She voted for the filthy, lying Iraq war; Bernie did not. Done.

  305. StoneBlue says:

    I hate corruption. She is going to be exposed one way or the other. Better it be now. I don’t like how they ran their campaign, so it’s up to me how I want to vote. Maybe next time the DNC will run a real Democrat instead of someone who’s turn it is. The FBI is still investigating. Don’t you care if she’s corrupt? I do. If Bernie had all this going, I would want him to drop out. How can any real Democrat vote for Hillary.

  306. quax says:

    Well said. This infighting is idiotic. Let’s take the excitement and energy Sanders mobilized and make the Democratic party better.

  307. Jack says:

    Yeah, but for starters, I live in New York, so we’re going for Hillary whether or not we like it. And also, I may as well not vote, and if I don’t vote, I’m not voting for Trump. You could argue that I will because I’m not expressing my opinion, but I’m not endorsing Trump with my vote. You see, I’d be putting out a political statement by not voting, voting for Jill Stein, or writing Bernie in.

    But don’t worry, I’ll vote.

  308. Houndentenor says:

    It’s because our culture has been dumbed down into simple binaries. You can’t just prefer one candidate over a group of alternatives. You have to HATE the alternative. I don’t hate Bernie. I don’t particularly love Hillary. They both have strong and weak points and frankly I’d have been happy to have a third alternative without the baggage both bring, but that didn’t happen (and almost never does anyway) so I voted for who I thought was the best candidate. And I would happily vote for either of them over anything the GOP put up this time around (or any of the other rounds in the last few decades).

    I don’t know how anyone would actually support Sanders but then prefer Cruz or Trump over Clinton. That makes no sense at all and it makes me wonder what the fuck they supported Sanders for. I do hear young people proclaim what all Bernie is going to do and not one of those things is ever going to get through Congress. The naivete is kind of cute. I used to be that idealistic too. And I also don’t begrudge them for supporting Sanders. As I said to someone the other day, “get more Democrats and liberals elected to Congress and a lot of what you want can get done.” And if Sanders really is part of a movement it might take several election cycles for that to play out. That was always the problem of “movements” in American politics. They attract idealistic people who want instant results and politics is slow. I wish them well I sincerely do, but if they think a Republican winning instead is better, we should remind them that there were people who thought that in 1980 and 2000 as well and instead those Republican presidents drug the country this far to the right. Dragging it back to the center (much less to left of center) is going to take a lot of effort over a few decades. If they aren’t up for that, then they aren’t serious about accomplishing anything.

  309. I don’t understand the Hillary hate and never have. I certainly don’t understand voting for a non-viable candidate, any more than I understand staying home on election day or voting for the guy I want to LOSE (effectively all the same result). I personally like both candidates, and would vote for either without hesitation over Trump. With SCOTUS in the balance, making myself feel better with a protest vote simply isn’t an option. I’ve been a Dem since 92 too, when Buchanan was such a douche, and Bush said nothing. But if I hadn’t liked Clinton, I wouldn’t have threatened to write in a name, stay home, or vote for Nader. (PS. Citizens United was an anti-Hillary smear movie. I can’t imagine she’s happy with its result)

  310. This is the part where it gets weird. When given this question, I’ve seen several responses akin to “I make up my own mind who to vote for, I don’t care what Bernie says.” And then will proceed to tell you that if they don’t get their way, basically, let it all BURN rather than BERN. I don’t get it.

  311. See, you say “contempt for Sanders supporters,” and follow it in the SAME SENTENCE with “Vamipre ‘nanny’ like Killery?” Is that not contempt for Hillary supporters? It’s a heck of a double standard. Particularly when many, many Hillary supporters are actually Bernie fans as well, they just have a preference. Many Bernie fans seem to have a blind spot there.

  312. Is Jill Stein a viable candidate? Has she even the most remote chance to win? If not, it seems to me to effectively be a vote for Trump. It’s as effective as not casting a vote at all. I know people roll their eyes at that, but it is instructive to remember how many very, very close elections we’ve had just in the last 16 years. I couldn’t do it, not with SCOTUS in the balance.

  313. StoneBlue says:

    Hillary dropping out. She is NO Democrat. She’s pro TPP, fracking, big banks, Citizens United, Clinton Foundation. And they played games with voters in Massachusetts by delaying the votes. Cheating doesn’t work with me. I won’t vote for those who cheated us. I am voting for Jill Stein if Bernie is out. Changing my party to Green. Been a Dem since 1992. I won’t make that mistake again. They left us for big corp and wars. I’m hoping the FBI does their job and puts her in jail. Or I hope Bernie goes Indie. He CAN win over both Dump and Coattails.

  314. angryspittle says:

    The only saving grace of a Hillary win would, indeed, be the SCOTUS. I would much rather have her appointing justices to federal courts at all levels than ANY goddamn lizard brained Republican.

  315. Butch1 says:

    I certainly understand your point. I used to vote as a Democrat for most of my life until their lies became too unbearable. I voted for Obama once. When I saw that he wasn’t the person he claimed to be and then for his second run, he turned right around and tried to pull the very same “I’m a progressive” once again and court the liberal base, sorry, my eyes were open this time around. I remember all the things he pulled and I voted for someone who was a real liberal. I knew he didn’t have a chance, but at least I could sleep at night knowing I made the right choice.

    Perhaps more people are having the same eye-opening experiences and eventually, we will get the government (and party) we want.

  316. Agreed, for the most part. As far as primaries go, this one really hasn’t been all that rough. And there are always people who insist they won’t vote for the primary victor, whoever they are. But the reasoning here is so. . .strange. I’m a Bernie fan who voted for Hillary in my primary, simply because I think she has the better shot. I like them both. But I’ve actually heard Bernie fans say, when I’ve pointed out that Bernie himself says Clinton is a million times better than the alternative that, “I don’t care what Bernie says!” And I’m like, “Wait, whut?” You’re all for his ideals, think he’s nearly perfect, the answer to what ails us, except for that. And they’d rather see Trump get it, if Bernie can’t. It literally makes no kind of sense to me. I’d vote Bernie in a heartbeat if he’s the nominee. But voting for Trump (or effectively doing so by staying home, voting for a candidate with negligible support, or writing in a name that can’t win)? It just doesn’t track.

  317. Butch1 says:

    Indeed; I may have mentioned earlier that it isn’t a given that Independents (of which I am) and Republican should be expected to jump and fall into line behind Ms. Clinton only because she “may” become the nominee. I’m only going to give the Democrats a chance because Bernie Sanders is running as one. And he only ran as one because there is absolutely no chance in our system, thanks to both of these parties for any other Party to have a chance to join the debates on a national level. It happened after the League of Women Voters had enough of their constant whining and bickering about the questions that were being asked them as being too hard on them and they wanted them in “advance” so they wouldn’t look ignorant in front of the nation when responding.

    Now, we get an Entertainment hour from them or Kabuki Theatre leading up to the final Entertainment hour. I refuse to waste my time knowing that it’s all complete fakery.

  318. And maybe you’re right, and maybe that sucks. But the status quo is better than a Trump presidency and a hard-right SCOTUS for the rest of most of our lives.

  319. Which is, in a word, insane.

  320. What is the “right direction?” Trump?

  321. tazkcmo says:

    Another fascist loyalty oath. I did my “duty” for in Oil War I. Do your own duty and get a real job and for once, do something productive in your life. Your soap box rhetoric is more appropriate for the neo-conservatives but it seems to be a shared trait of the Clinton Machine. Telling.

    In summation: Piss off

  322. StoneBlue says:

    They’ve already told us they don’t want our vote. I’m a Dem soon to go Green as soon as June 7th gets here. I will NOT vote for any Clinton EVER again. I don’t like Trump, but I hate Hillary more. I expect better from our party. Bernie IMO is BEST. She should drop out. Too much corruption for me to support. Bernie or BUST!

  323. StoneBlue says:

    Hillary looks like she gained 5 pound there.

  324. StoneBlue says:

    You can go jump in a lake. Why it’s your duty to tell Hillary to drop out of the race. She’s a money laundering liar who is married to a sexual predator. She has an FBI investigation going on. If just the thought of corruption doesn’t steer you in the right direction, you are corrupt too. No Clinton’s. Don’t give them what they stole from us. Fuck them.

  325. revbones says:

    You think they won’t impeach Clinton???

  326. revbones says:

    Nice backhanded compliment. Screw you and the rest of the ‘Bros for Hillary’ mentality people.

  327. revbones says:

    Some sweet Correct the Record ‘Breaking Barriers’ dollars perhaps?

  328. revbones says:

    Jon your hypocrisy is stunning. Where is the old objective Jon from days past? Now it’s always ridiculous vitriol over weird word parsing or anti-Bernie stuff. Very sad. #StillSanders here and I won’t be voting for Hillary.

  329. TheNeedle says:

    We can only hope that Madame Secretary is smarter about how to act towards actual progressive voters than her supporters are. All this hippie punching is what drives progressives to the Naders and Jill Steins. .

  330. Kansachusetts says:

    Waiting for the companion piece, “Why it’s the duty of every Hillary supporter to shut the fuck up about Sanders now.” I’ll vote for Hillary, of course, but you guys sure do make it difficult.

  331. TheNeedle says:

    Imagine how that kind of finger-shaking is going to play with independents who are already being bombarded with messages from the right that liberals are smug, condescending ,and arrogant. And then along come the Clintonistas to prove the point.

  332. TheNeedle says:

    I prefer the term “Hill-Bully.”

  333. Butch1 says:

    The more puerile acting you are against people the more you turn them off to your message. She isn’t helping Clinton one bit.

  334. TheNeedle says:

    Nice outreach there.

  335. TheNeedle says:

    I have long said that if Sanders isn’t the nominee, I’ll vote for Clinton if only to keep Trump out of the White House

    People like Judy are changing my mind.

  336. Marlon says:

    LOL. You excorciate Sanders supporters for whining about what Hillary “owes” them…..then proceed to tell them what they owe Hillary. I don’t know whether to laugh or laugh harder.

  337. Butch1 says:

    Many thanks! I do hope it doesn’t fizzle out; we really need to get rid of the cancerous DINOs and others who continue to betray the Party and what we’ve been trying to accomplish.

    When you have Democrats wanting to “compromise” and negotiate on Social Security and other Safety Net issues that were ALWAYS off the table, then it’s time to remove these people from office and replace them with real Progressive Democrats, period!

  338. Butch1 says:

    Ha! He actually does his homework; many people do not. I don’t watch him “faithfully” but he doesn’t pass out disinformation. He’s a leftie just like me and I love him for that.

  339. Butch1 says:

    Yes, I’ve learned to tune out much of the disinformation coming from our own White House as well. I learned a long time ago that even they could not be trusted to give us the truth; one has to dig all over for sources that have information and compare it. You’d be surprised what has actually been happening in the Middle East and Syria that our Lazy Main Stream Media isn’t even covering.

  340. BaritoneWoman says:

    Agreed, John.
    Political purity is non-existent and it’s BS, folks.
    The only thing that counts in November is beating Trump, Cruz, and the rest of the GOP.
    And if what John has said isn’t good enough for y’all, read some words from 2 bona fida progressives, playwright Tony Kushner and activist Doris “Granny D” Haddock:



  341. BaritoneWoman says:

    Here’s a place to continue the movement regardless of what happens in November:

  342. BaritoneWoman says:

    Concur. Here’s a place to start:

  343. kladinvt says:

    Please, HillaryInc thought it was time to sing for months now, and she’s been wrong every time.

  344. kladinvt says:

    And yet, you completely ignore the fact that the 2-party duopoly is a failure. It’s left us with 2 parties, who only differ on social issues, but when it comes to the 1% and war, they are in lockstep with each other. How about instead of whining that those of us on the Left have to get behind HillaryInc, why don’t YOU name a few of HillaryInc’s policy proposals that excite you and which you believe will energize the electorate to bother voting for her in November. Or is HillaryInc merely reduced to the “Anybody but Trump” candidate?

  345. Badgerite says:

    You mean like Cenk and his “Where is the plane” rant? I am not “rubbed’ the wrong way as such, I just think it is bad for the country no matter who does it.

  346. Badgerite says:

    Ever heard of the information age? There are news sources at the tips of your fingers these days. No one monopolizes information these days. But people can choose to tune out what they do not want to hear. And that won’t change because of Bernie Sanders. And I don’t think it is good for the country or a good political strategy to behave like he GOP. That is just not who we are or what we think this country is about.

  347. UncleBucky says:

    I WILL and I was always gonna vote BLUE in November.

  348. anabelle kyrie says:

    Good luck with that! LOL! A CNN exit poll, after the New York primary among Dem-Bernie supporters showed that 63% said, if Bernie is not the nominee… they will change party and vote for Trump.

  349. Butch1 says:

    There’s one more, though I cannot remember his name.

    Sanders has proved that the people can fund with small donations. I do not have the exact figures, but we are speaking of millions. This isn’t PAC money either. That’s quite an accomplishment.

    I’m sorry to say that Dean sold out to the Media. He used to be credible, not he’s just a “talking head.”

    You’re correct about Bush and his appointments. The Republicans appoint their justices and then will not let a Democratic president appoint his until the next president becomes a Republican, then they will let that one select the next justice once again. No one seems to care in the Democratic side of the aisle, but they whine about it. If they were intelligent they would play the very same game. This makes me think they are on the same team.

    What I do know is the Main Stream Media are owned by six conservative corporations. If you want certain information to be dispensed, it will be; like wise, if you want to suppress certain information that can be accomplished as well. Our citizens have become ignorant as to what is happening in this country and around the world because of the MSM. The Occupy Spring was protesting the Capital Building for a week and one day 100 people were arrested. How many stations broadcasted it? When CNN was being picketed on the West coast they didn’t even send one reporter down to cover it. Most people never heard about it. I watched both protests on RTTV and CSPAN-2. This is why there is a Blackout in America and no one knows what’s going on in Washington unless Washington wants them to know it. ;-)

  350. Butch1 says:

    I’m old and impatient. What you see as belligerent is just me being passionate in the way that I speak. I do not mince words anymore, I’ve found it doesn’t get me anywhere. Now, I just cut to the quick. Sorry, if that rubs you the wrong way. This country needs a new change in direction and it needs to happen now! The 99% are being screwed and they cannot wait any longer and be polite with hat in hand saying “Please and thank you” anymore for crumbs. Paul Ryan now is trying to get rid of Pre-existing conditions. It’s time to be belligerent and to stand up to what’s happening to us. I cannot apologize.

  351. 2karmanot says:

    Reality is relative. However, if you want truth vote Bernie.

  352. 2karmanot says:

    Beware: Hillary troll

  353. angryspittle says:

    But what will she do in foreign policy? She is an inveterate neocon war monger who never saw a damn military “solution” she hasn’t supported no matter the consequences. The MIC will be quite happy with her as will Wall St. the Koch Bros. etc.etc. etc. She is the status quo.

  354. Gail Maya-g Taylor says:

    This is how the pro-Hillary fear-mongers try to get Bernie-supporters to jump ship. Don’t fall for it. If every person who Wants Bernie elected stood by their own true voice, Bernie Can win. https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftheindependentthinker2016.wordpress.com%2F2016%2F04%2F27%2Fhow-bernie-sanders-will-win-the-democratic-nomination%2F&h=9AQFMXN9Z

  355. ParadeOfFools says:

    Good point. My only suggestion is to take a look at Jill Stein instead of writing in Bernie if he doesn’t get the nom. She’s the green party candidate and is basically running on the same platform as Bernie. I was going to write in Bernie too until I learned about her.

  356. Bill_Perdue says:

    The long Depression that began in 2007 is Bill Clintons fault.

  357. Blogvader says:

    This is an argument in favor of voting Green… not against it.

  358. Badgerite says:

    Well, I believe that Sanders is the only independent in Congress but I agree.
    Speaking as a long time Democratic voter, I certainly don’t want Sanders to fade into the woodwork or anything. I think the country needs his voice and I know the Democratic party does. I have always thought that Howard Dean was onto something and I was most disappointed when he was edged out of leadership at the DNC. I thought it was a mistake then and I still do.
    I think it is high time to push back the other way and I think Sanders, though I don’t think he will be at the top of the ticket, is perhaps a person who can do that. But let me ask you, how many candidates can you or your friends fund through small donations on a national level. The appointments that GW Bush made to the Supreme Court changed the law and changed the political process in this country for the foreseeable future with decisions like Citizens United and Shelby County. Job one has to be Democratic Senate and Democratic President. Without that, the money spigot and the voter disenfranchisement will continue as is and put anyone advocating your views at a distinct disadvantage.
    In my state we have a sitting Senator who I just refer to as Senator Ad Campaign. No one could ever accuse Russ Feingold of being a Wall Street sell out. Or any other kind of sell out, but Senator Ad campaign replaced him. So, please keep in mind that there are no simple answers or simple solutions.

  359. Butch1 says:

    This is true; they also rely on the Independents that caucus with the Democrats. I wonder how long this is going to continue if the Party doesn’t start changing to where the people are going?

  360. Badgerite says:

    Well, the “will of the people” is kind of in the eye of the beholder. And that is what checks and balances is all about. I don’t agree that the country does not need a finance industry or that they are “traitors” per se. I do agree that Corporate America needs a strong federal government to impose rules and regulations of fairness and transparency on them. I think Corporate Law was designed for a different age and it needs some real updating with teeth. This is where the Democratic party has not been as strong as one would hope. But the Democratic party is the home of Elizabeth Warren, Russ Feingold, Tammy Baldwin, etc. Your tone is just a tad too on the belligerent side for me. Besides which, the pressure points in American politics are not only in government. In order to achieve anything at all, the next president must maintain a healthy stable economy while moving the country and the world to a system of renewable energy technology, and prevent any large scale terrorist attacks from hitting the country. Otherwise, all bets are off.
    It isn’t just about Wall Street. When I listen to Sanders supporters, and I assume they are a true reflection of the Sanders campaign, I hear rhetoric that belongs to a by gone era. This is also the problem with Sanders. He and his supporters think that if you fix one thing, all the others things will follow. The world, governance is complex. It deals with people and is therefore very complex. I don’t think his supporters understand any of this. At least they don’t talk as if they do.

  361. Badgerite says:

    They, of course, don’t have the votes to impeach Obama. They don’t have the votes because of the existence and strength of the Democratic party.

  362. Jack says:

    No, I’m not. Did I say I was voting for Trump?

  363. Butch1 says:

    Interesting comment coming from a person who doesn’t even have any.

    People such as yourself are always arrogant and swagger when they type away safely behind their computer. Why don’t you try and pretend to show some manners here.

    You’re a “new-be” compared to me, so your projections of me “growing up” are unfounded. Perhaps you should take your own advice and since I’m a regular of long standing, it is you who is a rude new “visitor.”

  364. Butch1 says:

    They’ve been trying to impeach Obama for a long time as well.

    This movement plans to replace each and every DINO traitor in Washington DC. Enough of their voting with the Republicans all the time. If this party is going to work as a team it need to work in the same direction; it doesn’t need DINOs working against it.

    This movement plans to vote out the Tea Party as well. They have had their time screwing up the government and they have done nothing but obstruct and shut down the government since they’ve been in power. Now their leader in the house wants to get rid of Pre-Existing conditions of all things! Enough of these people who are traitors to the people of this country. They are only beholding to the Big Businesses. Time for them to go as well. They have shown their true selves and they are arrogant about it now. This movement wants to change Corporate America back to the Working Class America where people can make a decent living once again and we make these traitors pay with the money they have hidden in off-shore accounts. It’s time and it’s not even funny anymore that they are getting away with this from our own fat government that expect the 99% to continue paying for it!

  365. Butch1 says:

    No disservice at all; he has always said from the beginning that he was only the catalyst to a movement that has been ready to start. If he didn’t say what people were thinking they never would have followed him in the first place. If he doesn’t win the nomination it doesn’t mean this movement will fizz out. With or with out him, it will continue on and he has stressed that to them as well and we know it. This movement is out to change this dinosaur of a party whether they like it or not.

    The connection between Wall Street and the Democratic Party AND also Congress has to be broken and that is what it’s all about. Bernie was the catalyst to get it moving and he has been fought by his own party, the media and Washington DC. That doesn’t mean they can stop the will of the people or their votes by a long shot.

  366. judybrowni says:

    Ah, but youd take a screwing from Trump.


  367. judybrowni says:

    Grow up and grow a pair.

  368. judybrowni says:

    Ah, but youd take Trumps screwing.


  369. judybrowni says:

    Grow up and grow a pair.

  370. Badgerite says:

    Not without the whole of the Democratic party behind him. The GOP won’t cooperate. I would expect them to start all sorts of ‘hearings’ looking into everything he has ever done in his life. And that would just be the warm up.
    Were there to be any kind of successful terrorist attack in this country they would try to impeach him. If he were to use executive powers for anything, they would try to impeach him, etc. You get the idea.
    Sorry if my responses to your post focus on the Trump Monster. I have one of his supporters ragging at me in the comments section and I must have gotten the two crossed.

  371. Badgerite says:

    I believe my response was a Trump Monster supporter but OK. I have been to his website. My problem with Bernie is two fold. Personally I like him and I like what he says. And I think he has done a good thing by energizing the young and getting them concerned about and involved in politics.
    But I think he does a disservice to the young to get them to expect that he is the answer to their concern. And that is because our democratic system is one that looks to limit dangerous concentrations of power and that involves competing power centers which are somewhat adversarial and that check and balance the others. And that includes the presidency. This is one of the reasons that the two party system developed and abides in this country.
    You need broad, organized, political support to get anything actually accomplished and that support needs to be a long term thing which will hold over time because there are any number of pressure points ( power centers) that can and probably will impede your aims. It is a fine line between moving the Democratic party into alignment with a more progressive position, (which I am on board with) and claiming that the Democratic party is thoroughly dispensable in achieving that objective. It is not. Hilary Clinton has always known that.
    In my opinion, Bernie Sanders does not appreciate that. So I go with the person who will appreciate the value of the party behind her. And I will respect and admire Bernie Sanders for what he has accomplished in moving that party more into alignment with the concerns and interests of the public and particularly the young.

  372. Butch1 says:

    Again, go to Bernie Sanders web page and read what he’s offering before you attack him for not having a vision or a program to fix this government and nation. He actually has one and it CAN be accomplished in spite of the naysayers.

  373. andtoconclude says:

    No, just no. Won’t vote for Hillary. Enough.

  374. Houndentenor says:

    Care to elaborate?

  375. laura says:

    Still trying to see a way for Hillary to even be liked by 40% of the population. And I think that Hillary supporters should get with the program and support Bernie. The most popular presidential candidate in 40 years.

  376. Richard Sitongia says:


  377. Richard Sitongia says:


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  380. Richard Sitongia says:

    Sorry i didn’t get a raise in my SS for cost of living increase! 2 of the 3 last years,so has far has i’m concerned were screwed anyway! I can never vote for Hillary, that Liar, Queen of Corruption, Princess of the board of Walmart! Call me what ya want! But i’m American and I got 1 Vote and she will never get it! Period!!!

  381. Badgerite says:

    I won’t spare you. I merely recited a list of all the stupid, sophomoric, and damned near incoherent crap that has come out of the Trump Monster’s mouth during the last couple of months.

  382. Don Chandler says:

    John, why are you so excited about Hillary? Seriously, wtf is the big deal about her?

  383. Butch1 says:

    Did you read Sander’s site or Trumps? From the way you described “carpet bombing” it could well have been Cruz’ site. Spare me.

  384. Jack says:

    For God’s sake, we don’t want to elect Trump for president! Sheesh! If Bernie was the “inevitable” nominee, I’m sure we would be vying for your vote, by we wouldn’t be guilting you into it by claiming that you would help elect Donald Trump!

  385. Jack says:

    I’m not going to vote for Donald Trump. Do you think I’m crazy? I’ll be voting for Jill Stein, someone who I agree with on the issues more than Hillary. And you can’t tell me that I’m helping the GOP unless I vote/donate/volunteer for them.

  386. 2karmanot says:

    If it quacks like a duck it’s Judy

  387. Jack says:

    You’re right. I agree that the Democrats in general have much better policies than the GOP, but I think that when it comes to Hillary versus Bernie or Jill Stein, Bernie and Jill Stein have better policies than Hillary. That’s it. I’m just voting my values. On the down ballot races, then yeah, I’ll vote Dem.

  388. Bill_Perdue says:

    Democrats and Dixiecrats like the Clintons refused to pass ENDA or ENDA like legislation for over 40 years. They did vote for DOMA but refused to repeal it. They only vote for us when legislation has no chance to be enacted.

  389. Bill_Perdue says:

    Elections don’t change things, period. That’s science. That’s history.

    Your views on the history of economic crises are totally wrong. Democrats did not end the great Depression. War spendng did. It ended at 0700, Hawaiian time on December 7th, 1941.

    Democrat B Clinton championed and signed NAFTA, deregualtion and a bill go gut welfare. Those bills caused the crisis of 2007-08.

  390. Jack says:

    Democracy only works when you vote for people, not vote against other people. And if the DNC doesn’t want my vote, great. Then they won’t be disappointed when I vote for someone else.

  391. Jack says:

    So true. We’re not going to take it!

  392. Badgerite says:

    Well, let me guess. Trade barriers. Walls. Ethnic and religious bans on immigration. Carpet bombing. Waterboarding. A “beautiful plan” to “beat” ISIS. And all that “winning”. Oh, and global warming is nothing but “the weather”. And frankly, that last one was all I needed to hear.
    You understand, we are as a species and certainly as an economy, are dependent on the bounty that the Earth provides. If that ceases to exist, trade barriers and walls won’t do much. There is a new economy developing around alternative energy production. There are new technologies and economies already on the horizon. People like Donald Trump just look to impede that.
    And, frankly, when I listened to him talk, ( and that is very difficult because my ears keep wanting to detach from my head and flee) he sounds positively many lunches short of a picnic basket and then some.
    I think he sounds and acts demented. And so do many of his followers.
    David Duke is hardly the only one.

  393. Butch1 says:

    What makes you think we are staying home if we decide not to vote for Clinton? I think people are wising up and becoming tired of “voting for the lesser of two evils.” This is their best chance to vote for someone to start fixing that. If not this time perhaps the next or the next after that if we still have a chance. More people will get sick and tired and start voting for Independents or another solution. There are other choices besides Democrats and Republicans and perhaps these two dinosaurs will die out of we cannot fix them or break them away from Wall Street. Something will eventually happen, perhaps not in my lifetime, but it will eventually happen.

  394. Will says:

    We are entitled to our opinion. Please don’t be so condescending in your articles.

    The fact is our economy is standing near the edge of the cliff. And Hillary has no interest in steering our country away because the people at the top get a nice view. It’s in her interest to keep us steady while letting the corporations and special interest plunder what they can. She’s not compromising to get things done. She’s doing it cause she’s bought.

    Hillary’s Climate change policies will not make a difference nor provide the world leadership needed to save our environment. Trump doesn’t believe global warming, but he’s already shown he doesn’t like pollution and will push for cleaner air. It can be argued that Trump’s leadership will be more productive at getting other countries to reduce their carbon footprint.

    Trump’s 2 supreme court nominations will undo a lot of the progressive agenda on Social Justice Issues for years to come (civil rights, religion, criminal justice). However, many of us are privileged to
    not be impacted by these issues. While I recognize the way it should be, it isn’t necessarily going to make me vote Hillary. Also, there is only so much damage the President can do on these issues. It’ll probable become a states rights issue and some states will suck for certain groups of people.

    Hillary’s and Trump’s proposals will not fix our healthcare problems. Hospitals are closing due to the numbers of uninsured. Our deductibles and fees are higher. Both will keep the tax breaks in place that encourage healthcare providers to give cheaper prices to insurance companies. We need to start from scratch again.

    Hillary has no interest in rebuilding the middle class. She likes the corporate socialist society to stay the way it. She will definitely drive up the debt, but Trump will at least make sure to lower it. He has no idea how he’ll do it but I’m sure someone will show him. My guess is he’ll find a way to expand our military reserves and cut spending. He will measure his success the way he measures his personal success. I’m sure his cuts to education will be bad for the next 4 years, but it would demolish a system that isn’t working. There’s no reason for it to take more than 12 years of education to be qualified for a job good enough to label you middle class.

    I’m not advocating for Trump. He’s still Trump and unless he can sell that he’ll have a positive impact on my future I won’t vote for him either. I’m likely to write in Bernie or an independent candidate. The argument of vote for the lesser to two evils doesn’t apply to everyone, because they can only influence certain aspects of our life. In my case, I know Hillary will be somewhat bad while Trump hasn’t made commitments on the things I care about.

    Besides, 4 years from now Bernie or Warren might run against President Trump. Our countries issues might be fixed 4 years sooner if Hillary isn’t elected.

  395. Butch1 says:

    Have you ever visited his site; please do.

  396. Butch1 says:

    It won’t happen with people expected to come crawling on knees, judy. The more you try and rub the Sanders people’s noses in the dirt the less support you are going to get. Think about it.

  397. Butch1 says:

    “Duty?” Let me say this, Some of the people Sanders has attracted to his fold ARE NOT Democrats. Many of them are Independent voters and some of them are even Republicans. Surely you cannot expect them and demand them and tell them that it’s their “duty” to support Ms. Clinton when she is not the person they would support in the first place. I just do not see it happening. It may even be a tall order to ask the Sanders’ Democrats to support her when their viewpoints are vastly different and there has been enough bad blood spilled to this point. If she gets the nomination she is going to have to do a lot of bridge mending to win over the “dutiful”

  398. judybrowni says:

    In that case: “It’s time for the Sanders campaign to stop grifting and start negotiating.”

  399. judybrowni says:

    Bernie “will do everything that I can” to Prevent a Republican President, Even If Not Nominated.


    Again: Scorched Earth Bernie Bros, take note.

  400. Phil in FLL says:

    See my reply to judy below.

  401. Phil in FLL says:

    Karmanot thinks that my suspicions are not justified. I’ll give karmanot the benefit of the doubt… until I hear what Bernie has to say later this summer. I suspect that Bernie will not even come close to suggesting that liberals and progressives sit out the 2016 election or support a spite vote for Trump. We’ll have to wait until the Democratic convention to see what Bernie’s final opinion is. If Bernie and Hillary wind up coming to some consensus on the Democratic platform, the nay-sayers on Americablog will look like Republican trolls. I’ll take karmanot’s advice for the moment, but come summertime, we’ll see.

  402. judybrowni says:

    Hey, Bernie Bros I thought you were too pure for name calling.

  403. judybrowni says:

    If they support the spite vote for Trump, it’s obvious.

  404. judybrowni says:

    Except: Major Depressions/Recessions/economic collapse always in the second/third term of Republican Administrations.

    And it’s always the 99% hurt the most.

    Democratic administrations do cleanup and, if there’s time, bring us back to relative prosperity.

    And then an electorate with no memory starts the process all over again.

  405. judybrowni says:

    Gee, I was told the Bernie Bots don’t do the name calling thing.

  406. judybrowni says:

    Those two Bush credit card wars — one completely unnecessary — and the oppressive major tax cuts, primarily for the one percent, are generally acknowledged as the cement blocks that broke the camel’s back.

    (The Dems insisted at the time that the rest of us also get some minor tax relief, but that wasn’t where the major damage came.)

  407. judybrowni says:

    You’re welcome.

  408. heimaey says:

    Actually the Great Recession has its roots in Clinton’s presidency too.

  409. keirmeister says:

    How is “[Bernie and Hillary] voted together 93% of the time” the same as saying she’s “Not Quite as Bad as Trump”?

  410. 2karmanot says:


  411. heimaey says:

    OH we were so hoping for your endorsement because you’ve been so supportive before! THank you!

  412. judybrowni says:

    Bernie Bros take note:

    THIS is what the revolution looks like: Former Sanders staffers are launching a new PAC aimed at midterm Congressional elections


    THAT I can respect.

  413. judybrowni says:

    “Will all great Neptune’s ocean wash this blood clean from my hand? No, this my hand will rather the multitudinous seas incarnadine, making the green one red.”

  414. Webster says:

    And meanwhile, the rest of the civilized world is shaking its head in bewilderment (as it should) at how dumb Americans are:


  415. judybrowni says:

    Two wars and a worldwide recession and economic collapse.

    Plenty of blood still stuck to their hands.

  416. Blogvader says:

    Fascinating how it’s the ones you refuse to engage that just keep on replying.

    Some people are just desperate for attention.

  417. judybrowni says:

    Now just keep up that reality seeing through the election

  418. judybrowni says:

    In your book, “troll” is apparently defined differently.

  419. judybrowni says:

    “Poor Judy” votes for less evil than more, less economic misery than more.

    What a “poor” philosophy!

  420. judybrowni says:

    Uh huh.

  421. judybrowni says:

    Uh huh.

    Bush Administration not enough evil for you, I guess.

  422. judybrowni says:

    You were rolling in the doody metaphor long before I showed up.

  423. judybrowni says:

    What you said makes no sense whatsoever.

    Par for the course.

  424. judybrowni says:

    And those are the Bernie supporters who will sensibly vote for the Democratic nominee, whoever it is, not threaten to go Trump, for spite.

  425. judybrowni says:

    Uh huh.

    In Bizarro World.

  426. judybrowni says:

    See above: Great Depression, Great Recessions all created by Republican Administrations, cleaned up by Democratic administrations.

    Those who don’t study history will be forced to relive it.

  427. You are in Washington DC and you have ears? I suspect Trump is playing persons such as yourself like a violin and is in fact a centrist liberal in lions cloth and could possibly trump Hillary in November because of her negatives ie corporatist aka neoliberal profiteering.
    I’m wholly discouraged.
    And your message? shame on me, oh the shame, shame, shame.

  428. judybrowni says:

    For the nearly the last 100 years, a major depression or recession has been created by the

  429. judybrowni says:

    The proof is in the pudding: Red States by and large fail economically compared to Blue States, also trailing at the bottom educationally and for the health of their citizens — with sky high infant mortality rates.

    Red States are failed states, in comparison, Blue States are not.

    Apparently, there’s some major difference in outcome between voting for the partis.

  430. judybrowni says:

    Good education, crackerjack judge in family court in New York, best selling author — Judge Judy is plenty smart.

  431. 2karmanot says:

    Rachel has the potential to be a Pulitzer Prize recipient. She’s brilliant, charismatic and a superb journalistic investigator, but when she turned on her mentor Keith Olbermann and left her sneaker prints on his departing back, I lost respect for her. I hope she comes around and does not comfortably slide into yet another talking head entertainer.

  432. judybrowni says:

    Because Trump will fulfill all your wildest progressive dreams!

  433. 2karmanot says:

    Have you even read the Demo Platform? It’s a libretto for a Muppet show.

  434. Badgerite says:

    I like Bernie Sanders. In fact, I like what he says a lot. Well. Mostly I think the Democratic party has be more aggressive in adopting progressive positions and advocating for them. But there needs to be a practical side to any politician in order to accomplish anything. And that needs a whole political party behind you. It can’t be done alone.

  435. 2karmanot says:

    Oh My Gawd dc, you are definitely connecting with your inner Judge Judy. I can’t help but laugh. Good snark my friend.

  436. 2karmanot says:

    Same here

  437. Badgerite says:

    What his positions are? Seriously. I have ears. That’s how.

  438. 2karmanot says:

    Oh please Disasterina. blood off their hands? As for Nader….well, he is an American hero. Remember the word Democracy?

  439. 2karmanot says:

    You are not alone. Hillary will be a disaster…..even worse than Obama….eight more years of nothing left to lose.

  440. 2karmanot says:

    Being called an asshole by Becca for example might be considered a badge of honor, but from Judy, well….let us just say D List and be kind.

  441. 2karmanot says:

    Dear Judy, a good therapist may help you with your poo and asshole issues. Get help my dear.

  442. 2karmanot says:

    Nothing wrong with being a bitch. Why, some of my best friends………………

  443. 2karmanot says:

    I am sad to see you join the Aravosis snark brigade with the line: ” Senator Sanders is not and never has been the One True Candidate Who Will Save The World.” We knew Bernie in Vermont. He is the real deal. To my knowledge he has never been a Goldwater supporter, on the Board of Wal*Mart, an ardent supporter of the disastrous Middle East wars, a tacit supporter of torture, or had to ‘come around’ on basic GLTB civil rights. The list goes on. Slandering Bernie is only driving us away from the party. The Demo Party is fracturing because of the Hillary assults and some of us had enough!

  444. 2karmanot says:

    Perfect pair:

  445. 2karmanot says:


  446. 2karmanot says:

    So true that, Judy. Ignoring you is futile.

  447. 2karmanot says:

    Well, at least Demosthenes has enough sense to wear a hat when you fly overhead and drop your mini loads.

  448. 2karmanot says:

    “All we know is that some of the commenters on this thread would indeed prefer conservative picks for the Supreme Court.” Seriously? You just went off the tracks with that canard.

  449. 2karmanot says:

    “Why bother voting at all then?” It’s called DEMOCRACY emjayay. Remember Democracy?

  450. 2karmanot says:

    Honey, nobody cares, your histronics are, well, almost annoying.

  451. 2karmanot says:

    Make that Hillary Goats and I’m in!

  452. 2karmanot says:

    Poor Judy is impervious to snark and particularity, irony. Suck Nation Judy, Suck Nation!

  453. 2karmanot says:

    That’s true, and look where that got us: a mediocre presidency.

  454. 2karmanot says:

    Judy can’t help it moderator. She has stomach problems.

  455. 2karmanot says:

    Bravo! Exactly so…

  456. 2karmanot says:

    There is no ‘more’ evil. Read your Hegel and get back to us.

  457. 2karmanot says:

    Pat attention to Judy. She is clearly an expert on poo.

  458. 2karmanot says:

    “So, fellow commenters, you were saying?” How about: ppppfffftttt ?

  459. 2karmanot says:

    Don’t be sorry Judy is usually on the stirring end of the s**t pile and is exaggerating as usual. That’s why she’s had the kindness to warn us to hold our breath when she comments.

  460. 2karmanot says:

    Scary isn’t it? Yet, Aravosis and the Hillary bots think that their demeaning contempt for Sanders supporters and finger wagging slanders will somehow bring Bernie voters in swarms to loving arms of a vampire ‘nanny’ like Killery. Quess what? No, never, nada…..I’d rather go Green or write Bernie in than acquiesce to a another lesser evil. In this case there’s only one evil her name is Hillary.

  461. heimaey says:

    Apparently many others think they don’t need us either so I have a feeling this will all fade soon enough: http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/4/25/do-what-you-want-an-open-letter-to-the-bernie-or-bust-movement-on-behalf-of-the-democratic-party

  462. dcinsider says:

    I don’t think he is saying that.

    He is assuming that Hillary will get the nomination, as would anyone with a 3rd grade education, and that the choice this fall will be between Hillary and the Donald. You should DEFINITELY support your candidate until the candidate ends his campaign. However, when he does, John is simply saying don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    In the end, the choice between Hillary and The Donald is not an election, it’s an IQ test.

    Those who vote Trump (or choose to stay home and hold their breath util they turn blue) are low IQ people.

    Don’t be a low IQ person.

  463. Bill_Perdue says:

    Trump is just as bad as HRH HRC.

  464. Bill_Perdue says:

    Nader had nothing to do with Gores loss. Bill Clintons DOMA, DADT, NAFTA, deregulation gutting welfare and his wars of aggression defeated Gore.

  465. Houndentenor says:

    I’m sick of most of Bernie’s and Hillary’s supporters. There’s been a lot of horrible behavior from both camps (less so from the candidates themselves).

  466. Houndentenor says:

    I voted for Hillary but I didn’t decide until a week before my primary. I like Bernie and a lot of his ideas. I don’t like all of Hillary’s ideas. So as someone who thinks we should all support the nominee I’m going to give some advice to Bernie supporters.

    1) Make some reasonable demands. The VP nominee should be someone especially appealing to your wing of the party. Someone like Elizabeth Warren. (I think most Democrats would be pleased with that choice, but it doesn’t have to be her specifically and probably won’t be.) Also insist on some of Bernie’s ideas to be in the platform.

    2) Play the long game. Bernie’s appeal was broader among younger voters. That means that you have the advantage going forward. If you pull out now and wreck the election, you will be blamed and be shut out in the future. Or you can join in and think about the future. That “revolution” than Sarandon and others are dreaming of isn’t coming. What will happen is a president more to your liking but that may take awhile to achieve. Our culture is focused on the short term but real struggles are won over years and sometimes decades. If you are serious, they you are going to have to be serious and stay engaged in all elections going forward, not just an occasional presidential one.

    3) Switch your focus to local elections in the meantime. Neither Sanders nor Clinton can do hardly anything they are promising without Democrats getting Congress back and the House is going to take some effort. It might be possible if a LOT of new voters register and vote. Otherwise you could get Sanders elected and get virtually nothing of what you want. Also, state legislatures matter a great deal. So do city councils. Have you been noticing all those horrible anti-trans and anti-abortion bills getting passed lately? That’s what comes from liberals staying home in “off-year” elections. Get involved. Vote. Stay engaged. Yes, it’s disheartening to lose. We’ve ALL been there. if you expect to win every time, then you’re not going to accomplish much.

  467. Hilarious! I haven’t laughed this hard since I heard George Carlin live at the Ed Sullivan theater. Oh yes, the president must be a corporatist or else. Ha Ha Ha.
    This is a vacuous, empty piece of political hackery. How does Mr. Aravosis know what Trumps positions are? he doesn’t. Neither does anyone else.
    Fear monger.

  468. mportala says:

    I’m a Bernie supporter, and of course I’ll be voting for Hillary. I’ll always vote the least bad choice. Most of us will. Just so damn sick of the contempt with which we’ve been treated. My Bernie support has to do with Hillary’s support for the banking industry and with her hawkish foreign policy. I truly detest her policies and the choices she has made over the years – and stood by! But, I will be voting for her. She’ll continue on with policies that contribute our slow(ish) decline. I’m not ready to jump over a cliff with Trump or Cruz. Apparently, Hillary’s rallying cry to the incredibly engaged Bernie Supporters is Vote for Me, Trump is Cray Cray. It works for me, but my two voting aged teenagers, who never gave a doodle before are going to be hard to get to the polls on that one. But, hey – keep calling them stupid – parents’ll tell you – that always works with young people!

  469. Voodoo Chile says:

    Doubling down on sexism …

  470. So Aravosis’ whole point is “Vote for Hilary: Not Quite as Bad as Trump!”

    Come on, John, I thought you were a progressive liberal. The only hopeful things Hilary has said this campaign are the policy moves she’s made to sound more like Bernie.

  471. Gladys Kravitz says:

    have you been reading the news? the bernie bro thing is largely astroturf. sorry you’ve been on the receiving end of that; most bernie supporters are not like that.

  472. Webster says:

    Let’s extend John’s stupid analogy, let’s suppose (for whatever reason–unexplained) the Bernie nanny doesn’t “make the cut,” so we’re stuck with the seemingly perfectly adequate Hillary nanny. She’s likable enough, however the agency she comes from is not so likable–in fact, her owners like to frack children, they like to sell children to the highest Wall Street bidder, they like to sell children to whatever war machine that happens to come down the pike.

    Hmmm. Perhaps we ought to take another good look at that Bernie nanny who unexplicably didn’t “make the cut.”

  473. Rainbird says:

    I am guessing that if Bernie steps out of the race after the convention and endorses Jill she will do better.

  474. Gladys Kravitz says:

    this is not productive and it’s a logic fail. many of us who support bernie are actually in the position to with hold our votes from hillary without having any effect on her electoral chances. i live in texas, a winner take all, solid GOP state. voting for hillary will literally do nothing to increase her chances of winning; not voting for hillary will do nothing to increase her chances of losing. i will not vote for her in the fall in order to register a protest against the very undemocratic process of selecting our nominee. sure, i’ll vote for the dems down ballot, but i’m writing in bernie for president. it is the only way i can register my disgust for the process.

  475. Blogvader says:

    I live on the Missouri state line.

    We didn’t get Sam Brownback because people stayed home. Even his own supporters despise him. But they, like many here, got into the voting booth and that familiar refrain sounded in their head: “Any Republican is better than a Democrat!”

  476. Blogvader says:

    We do.

    I don’t support all Dems. I’m an independent, and I support voting records that fit with my politics. I supported (and donated) to both Claire McCaskill and Emanuel Cleaver, though granted I’d only vote for Emanuel Cleaver at this point, because Claire’s proven herself to be a tool of the party where Cleaver’s actually voted as he said he would. I largely vote Dem at the state level here in Missouri.

    If more people did this rather than the ‘Anyone’s better than a *********”, we’d be in a better spot as a nation. Sadly, as displayed here, people largely care only about party affiliation.

  477. Dave n DC says:

    It’s still the primary, man! Even though Bernie can’t win, we still need to pull our party in the right direction by continuing to vote our conscience. So stop trying to bring people down for fighting for their principles. When the time comes, any sane person should prefer Hilary to Trump. Hilary didn’t give up before primaries against Obama were over. And I heard the same super delegate talk 8 years ago from Hillary supporters about her winning at the convention. Give up already! The Democratic Party aren’t a bunch of robots that all need to be the same.

  478. Blogvader says:

    She started to lose me in the debate a few months ago when she openly and without a hint of irony claimed that she thinks we should stick with the health insurance industry that we’ve built upon since WWII. I thought that, clearly, she doesn’t have to actually look at her medical bills or have any idea how price gouging for health care in this country (enabled by the Democrats with Obamacare) is truly affecting people.

    Then there was her utter silence on wages until Bernie wouldn’t shut up about them, and she randomly throughout a figure that was higher than the current minimum wage, but no one thinks she’ll actually follow through. I certainly don’t.

    I don’t understand how a HRC presidency truly benefits anyone if we get another eight years of workers being exploited economically or thrown out of a job.

  479. Demosthenes says:

    He picked a moderate.

  480. wufnik says:

    Sorry, but no. I’ve been voting reliably Democratic in every election since 1968, and have watched with increasing dismay as the party has lurched further and further to the right over the years. It now looks to be led by a corporatist who can’t wait to show how tough she is, whom I opposed even before Bernie came along. To think of Hillary as progressive is to demean the meaning of the word. I’ve had enough. This party no longer represents me or speaks for me, and no longer warrants my support–to say nothing of my “duty,” a term I find pretty offensive, frankly. I’m off!

  481. Blogvader says:

    someone who may vote in favor of LGBT rights, but will sell all working people down river.

    This is my major problem with HRC. She makes a theatrical display of her support for social justice, but didn’t even make wages part of her public platform until Bernie made it inconvenient for her to say nothing. Also, she supports TPP, and after watching NAFTA take jobs away from this country, I cannot support another president who’ll allow us to be pillaged.

    I’m not sure how much it matters that she thinks black lives matter if she’s going to support the systemic economic oppression of all Americans.

  482. Blogvader says:

    I don’t correspond with trolls, Judy.

    Have a pleasant day!

  483. Blogvader says:


  484. heimaey says:

    That’s a YP not an MP.

  485. heimaey says:

    “Blood on our hands” – dramatic much? Also I didn’t vote for Nader in 00 I voted for Gore. I did vote for Nader in 96 though. Trying to blame others for your problems is never a good idea though – you can blame Nader voters all you want for 00 but it’s not going to change anything and it just makes you look as bitter as you claim the Sanders losers are now.

  486. rmthunter says:

    Let’s hope they pay attention to you, instead of just sitting at home and pouting. The down-ticket races seem to be forgotten, and ignoring those has gotten us the Congress and state legislatures and governors that are wrecking the country, state by state (can you say “Sam Brownback”?).

    That seems to be the difference between the left wing of the Democratic party and the right wing of the Republican party — the right wingers get off their butts and vote, with often lamentable results.

  487. rmthunter says:

    Because this election is not a job selection situation. We don’t get to call another election because we don’t like the candidates for this one.

  488. Randy Riddle says:

    I would like to see Bernie supporters put their passion and energy behind electing progressive Dems in the next mid-term. Lasting change can’t happen without changing Congress, no matter who is in the White House.

  489. kladinvt says:

    Why would those of us on the Left vote for a corporate-centrist, with strong interventionist tendencies? Why would anyone believe that HillaryInc has moved from her right-of-center default mode?

  490. judybrowni says:

    Reality is reality.

    Ignoring reality doesn’t make it go away.

  491. judybrowni says:

    I’ve voted and donated for Democrats for over 40 years: still don’t cotton to a President Trump.

  492. judybrowni says:

    Love the Naderites still desperately trying to wash the blood off tneir hands 16 years later.

  493. judybrowni says:

    8 years and six months, with any luck.

  494. Moderator3 says:

    Eleven comments in one hour in one thread? That’s thread clogging at it’s best.

  495. judybrowni says:

    Ah, yes that special math that is Bernie Math:https://youtu.be/NHS-K7OuLAc

  496. judybrowni says:

    In your case, doody as in poo?

  497. Ericakmason4 says:

    “my room mate Lori Is getting paid on the internet 98$/hr”…..!cc306ctwo days ago grey MacLaren P1 I bought after earning 18,512 DoIIars..it was my previous month’s payout..just a little over.17k DoIIars Last month..3-5 hours job a day…with weekly payouts..it’s realy the simplest. job I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months. ago. and now making over. hourly 87 DoIIars…Learn. More right Here !cc306n:➽:➽:➽➽➽➽ http://GlobalSuperJobsReportsEmploymentsJunctionGetPayHourly$98…. .❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦::::::!cc306n….,…

  498. Ericakmason4 says:

    “my room mate Lori Is getting paid on the internet 98$/hr”…..!cc306ctwo days ago grey MacLaren P1 I bought after earning 18,512 DoIIars..it was my previous month’s payout..just a little over.17k DoIIars Last month..3-5 hours job a day…with weekly payouts..it’s realy the simplest. job I have ever Do.. I Joined This 7 months. ago. and now making over. hourly 87 DoIIars…Learn. More right Here !cc306n:➽:➽:➽➽➽➽ http://GlobalSuperJobsReportsEmploymentsJunctionGetPayHourly$98…. .❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦:❖❖:❦❦::::::!cc306n….,….

  499. judybrowni says:

    Sure worked for me, when the Bernie Bros did it.

    I was also impressed by being harassed online and loved their threats to elect Trump, if I didn’t support their candidate.

  500. judybrowni says:

    Yuparooni, that Trump fellow sure can be trusted on healthcare.

    If there’s any money left. over for frivolity like that after he builds the wall, and evicts all the Muslims.

  501. judybrowni says:

    Because youd prefer MORE sucking.

    Donald Trump black hole levels of sucking.

  502. judybrowni says:

    Whereas Trump would fulfill all your progressive fantasies.

  503. judybrowni says:

    Scorched earth, the progressive fantasy.

  504. judybrowni says:

    On the other hand, I’m sure John McCain or Mitt Romney would have fulfilled your dearest progressive dreams.

  505. judybrowni says:

    Because rational adults prefer less evil, rather than more evil.

  506. judybrowni says:

    And I’ve been harassed online by Bernie Bros in ways Karl Rove would applaud.

    As for scorched earth: add in the pout threats from Bernie Bros to help elect President Trump if they don’t get their way.

    But recent polls indicate millenials are chomping at the bit to support presumptive nominee Clinton over Trump, so we don’t need you.

    Hold your breath till you turn blue, go sulk in a corner, we Democrats don’t care.

  507. judybrowni says:

    I’ve been harassed by Bernie Bros online in ways Karl Rove would applaud.

    Add in the Bernie Bros who’ve threatened to help elect a President Trump If. They. Don’t. Get. Their. Way.

    Damn tired of the harassment and threats: you can all go to hell as far as I’m concerned.

    And recent polls indicate that millenials aren’t the selfish pigs Bernie Bros are — they’re enthusiastic to vote for Democratic nominee Clinton against Trump, so fuck you, too.

  508. crazymonkeylady says:

    It’s to the point that for the Bernie or Bust people saying they will stay home on election day scares me more than Hillary in the Oval Office. Yes, I voted for Bernie, but I’m not willing to ever say ‘President Trump’ EVER.

  509. Voodoo Chile says:

    Didn’t Obama offer us up a GOP choice for the Court?

  510. Voodoo Chile says:

    I’d say it was the duty of Hillary supporters to not call Bernie Sanders and his liberal base sexist, racist, and homophobic. Those are scorched earth, Karl Rove tactics that you really shouldn’t have reached for.

  511. Phil in FLL says:

    OK, you’ve put your finger on it, unfortunately. The Christian reign of terror that has plagued Western civilization for the last 1600 years is falling apart in front of everyone’s eyes… and that rubs some people the wrong way—like a few of the commenters on this thread. Get it? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Are those commenters pissed off because their relatives treated them badly for being too… ahem… gender nonconforming? Who knows? Who cares? All we know is that some of the commenters on this thread would indeed prefer conservative picks for the Supreme Court.

    Just imagine one of the guys who comment on Americablog going to their relatives’ home on Thanksgiving. Uncle Cletus and Aunt Hattie slam the door in their face because they think our Americablog commenter has always been way too gender nonconforming. So they get on Americablog and write about how cool it would be if Trump could appoint another Scalia or Thomas.

  512. BeccaM says:

    You must really enjoy being incredibly wrong then.

  513. Phil in FLL says:

    Jill Stein has run only once, so far—in 2012. She got 0.36% of the popular vote.

  514. Blogvader says:

    You’re welcome to your opinion, but Obama’s actions speak very loudly on that topic. (Or rather, inaction.)

  515. Phil in FLL says:

    I don’t think Obama was bought and paid for in 2008. His campaign caught fire.

  516. Phil in FLL says:

    Bookmarking this for the day when…

    Your attempts to predict the future are amusing. Why would you bookmark today as the day that all this happens? Tarot cards? Tea leaves? Coffee grounds? You are making the same fool out of yourself that you often do.

    And why do you mention LGBT rights so snidely? Your preference for Mr. Trump is showing. Is it because of that comment that Donald made about appointing Supreme Court justices like Scalia and Thomas?

  517. Blogvader says:

    She has a majority, yes, but it’s not the massive support that you and John like to pretend she has. This explains why you’re resorting to the old tried and true “She sucks less than THAT guy!” defense and trying to scare me into supporting your preferred candidate.

    (Pledged delegates: 1359 to 1666)

    This is why the Democratic Party should seek a consensus. They won’t. Hillary, like every Democratic president since Kennedy is bought and paid for.

  518. Phil in FLL says:

    Trump said if Hillary was a man, she wouldn’t pull more than 5%. I agree.

    Oh, you agree, do you? Trump has never had a day of government experience in his life. Hillary, in contrast, was elected to two terms as the U.S. senator from… Rhode Island? Idaho? Oh, that’s right, two terms as the U.S. senator from New York State. After that, she serves as Secretary of State during both of Obama’s terms of office. Now think about previous presidential candidates over the last 40 years or so. Most people would agree that a man who had been elected to two terms as U.S. senator from New York State and then served as Secretary of State during two presidential terms would be doing pretty well indeed among the field of presidential candidates. Now read your own comment over again. You’ve made an utter jackass out of yourself for all to see, as has Donald Trump, the candidate that you’re quoting. Think before you post a comment.

  519. Phil in FLL says:

    “It’ll be the fault of the Democratic Party for failing, yet again, to listen to voters…”

    What has happened is not result of machinations on the part of the Democratic Party as an institution. What has happened is that Hillary has gotten substantially more votes nationwide than Bernie. Your entire premise is easily disproved by reviewing the events of the 2008 primary. Hillary, the prohibitive favorite in 2008, did not win because of machinations on the part of the Democratic Party. Obama won because—like Hillary this year—he won substantially more votes nationwide. Your complaint is with the millions of primary voters who simply disagree with you. Figure it out, Sparky.

  520. Phil in FLL says:

    As I have said here and on other blog, I haven’t been loudly rooting for either candidate because from the beginning of the primaries, I have liked both Bernie and Hillary just fine. I think it’s best to let Bernie speak for himself rather take seriously some of the more overwrought opinions on this thread. So here are Bernie’s own words:

    I congratulate Secretary Clinton on her victories tonight, and I look forward to issue-oriented campaigns in the 14 contests to come… The people in every state in this country should have the right to determine who they want as president and what the agenda of the Democratic Party should be. That’s why we are in this race until the last vote is cast. That is why this campaign is going to the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia with as many delegates as possible to fight for a progressive party platform that calls for a $15 an hour minimum wage, an end to our disastrous trade policies, a Medicare-for-all health care system, breaking up Wall Street financial institutions, ending fracking in our country, making public colleges and universities tuition free and passing a carbon tax so we can effectively address the planetary crisis of climate change.

    Now does that sound like Bernie is endorsing Jill Stein, Chelsea Manning or Bill Perdue for president? Does it sound like he’s going to work against the interests of the very Democratic senators that he’s been caucusing for his entire career in the U.S. Senate? Does it sound like Bernie would like to make Republican control of the Senate more likely? No. It doesn’t.

  521. hidflect says:

    Trump said if Hillary was a man, she wouldn’t pull more than 5%. I agree. She’s an appalling warmonger and despite laying low on the issue, has already been caught mumbling about no-fly-zones for Syria and sanctions on Iran. She has owners and they want to weaken the ME by any and all means necessary.

  522. Jan Downs says:

    Um, no. Have you tried not being a complete buffoon?

  523. Jan Downs says:

    God I hate it when politicians respond to their constituents. Such assholes.you

    She could sure cancers and you folks would still think she was pandering. There’s no pleasing some people.

  524. Max_1 says:

    Doody… As in howdy?
    Doody… As in loyalty?
    Doody… As in, I have a brain and stop telling me how to use it?

  525. Jan Downs says:

    LOL It’s not like you folks respond to reason or good sense.

  526. Bill_Perdue says:

    Voting for HRH HRC enables racism, warmongering and union busting. Trump is just as bad but neither are fascists, they’re just run of the mill right centrists.

  527. jamesnimmo says:

    If this election were a real job selection situation and neither of the final two candidates were adequate, neither of them would be hired. Another round of advertisements would go out and another list of possible candidates would be prepared. WHY must America always have to settle for the lesser of two evils?

  528. Demosthenes says:

    I agree. She has shifted leftward in the primary race to combat Mr. Sanders.

  529. Rainbird says:

    She has shifted leftward in the last several months because she was loosing huge market share to Bernie. I expect that will begin to contract pretty quickly now.

  530. Rainbird says:

    If Jill Stein gets 5% or more of the popular vote then next cycle the green party gets a 91 million dollar grant and 18 million to have a party convention. It would feel good to have a third party in this country.

  531. Blogvader says:


    You’re alternately desperate one day and accusatory the other, and this election has brought out the worst in you. It’ll be nice when the election’s over and your more reasonable side is on display.

    The other day you were actively in support of Democratic disenfranchisement of voters, but you’d probably hypocritically call out GOP lawmakers for doing so with voter ID. It wasn’t long ago that you complained about the cost of living in DC, but you’re campaigning for a candidate that couldn’t be bothered to address wage stagnation until Bernie made it inconvenient for her to ignore. We do not have universal health care in this country, and under Hillary, price gouging by insurance companies will continue. She’s already said as much.

    When you’re not belittling Bernie’s supporters, you’re tacitly fearmongering and urging them to vote out of fright.

    Unless something drastic changes, I will not vote Hillary, and it won’t be my fault if she loses. It’ll be the fault of the Democratic Party for failing, yet again, to listen to voters and find a reasonable consensus, opting instead to side with their Wall Street handlers.

  532. Blogvader says:

    Agreed all around.

    “She sucks less than that guy!” doesn’t cut it for me anymore.

  533. emjayay says:

    That’s really sad.

  534. emjayay says:

    We will only have to suffer individually and as a country if enough people like you do not understand how our Constitutional system works.

  535. emjayay says:

    Why bother voting at all then? It’s not a parliamentary system. Feel-good votes mean absolutely nothing, except for enabling some facist to win.

  536. Demosthenes says:

    “Obama is the racist who . . . ”

    Okay, I stopped reading at this point.

  537. Demosthenes says:

    You need to actually be logical.

  538. Bill_Perdue says:

    Trump, the Clintons and Obama have the same policies. Why do you suppprt those policies?

  539. Bill_Perdue says:

    Obama is the racist who deported 2,000,000 immnigrant workers.

    Obama started or continued half a dozen or more wars.

    Obama wanted to gut Social Security.

    Obama refused to fight to repeal DOMA or pass ENDA.

    Obama endorses and permits offshore drilllihng and fracking.

    Why do you think that their policies and Trunps policies, which are identical in most respects, are worth supporting? Their court appoints will always be the same in the sense that they will always respond to the pressure of mass movements and that is the only we can get them to make progressive changes.

    You’re dead wrong. Obama, the Clintlons, Trump and Cruz are burning it all down.

  540. mgiltz says:

    I donated money to Bernie for about six months, $20 a month. (That’s a LOT to me.) I absolutely will support Hillary and vote for her and this piece is a great, non-confrontational way of urging everyone to do the same. The fact that they voted together 93% of the time is a great one to repeat again and again. Really, the simple fact of having Hillary versus Trump picking Supreme Court nominees should be enough to get people to actively support her.

  541. Demosthenes says:

    Once again you’re dead wrong. The Supreme Court justices named by Presidents Obama & B. Clinton are far better than any selected by a Pres. Trump. We see it in the slew of decisions where the 4 Clinton/Obama justices dissented from extraordinarily harmful cases like “Hobby Lobby”.

  542. Demosthenes says:

    Pres. B. Clinton and Pres. Obama named top notch justices to the Court. You seem to think that unless a president agrees with your ideology 100%, that it’s better to burn it all down as part of some sort of cosmic Shakespearean tragedy.

  543. Bill_Perdue says:

    As I said before, the Sanders campaign will speed up the destruction of the Democrat Party in the same way that Trumps will help destroy the RP. That will be the outcome no matter which party of racism, wars and more poverty wings and that is a very good thing.

  544. Bill_Perdue says:

    Appointing right wing Democrats to the courts will not solve the problems of union busting, wars and racism that your characterize your party.

  545. Bill_Perdue says:

    Elections don’t change things. That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

    “A new scientific study from Princeton researcher Martin Gilens and Northwestern researcher Benjamin I. Page has finally put some science behind the recently popular argument that the United States isn’t a democracy any more. And they’ve found that in fact, America is basically an oligarchy.

    Comparing the preferences of the average American at the 50th percentile of income to what those Americans at the 90th percentile preferred, as well as the opinions of major lobbying or business groups, the researchers found out that the government followed the directives set forth by the latter two much more often. It’s beyond alarming.

    As Gilens and Page write, ‘the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.’ In other words, their statistics say your opinion literally does not matter.” http://mic.com/articles/87719/princeton-concludes-what-kind-of-government-america-really-has-and-it-s-not-a-democracy

  546. Bill_Perdue says:

    You seem to be trying to make the point that Republicans are better than Democrats. Republican majority courts in Massachusetts and California voted for marriage equality at a time when both the Clintons and Obama rabidly opposed it.

    Republicans are not better than Democrats, they’re the same.

  547. nicho says:

    Bookmarking this for the day when Clinton names Susan Rice and Victoria Nuland among other warmongers to her cabinet, or for the day when she puts Goldman Sachs in charge of the treasury, or when she names another corporatist to the Supreme Court — someone who may vote in favor of LGBT rights, but will sell all working people down river.

    However, I fear that will be lost on the die-hard Clintonites who — like the 29-percenter Bush supporters — will make excuses for every wretched thing she does.

  548. Demosthenes says:

    The justices named by Ms. Clinton would likely be similar to the excellent ones named by Pres. Obama and Pres. B. Clinton.

  549. Demosthenes says:

    You’re dead wrong on judicial picks. There’s a huge difference.

  550. nicho says:

    Goldman Sachs will name justices to the Supreme Court. They own Bill and Hillary — lock, stock, and barrel.

    She has to call them in the morning to find out what color pants suit to wear.

  551. nicho says:

    Now that is time-honored was to attract people to your cause. Insult them. Belittle them. Call them names. I can just head the stampede of people willingly coming to Hillary’s camp to be abused.

    Hillary gals gotta gloat. Example above.

  552. pliny says:

    Sander’s current position isn’t the result of a vast middle-wing conspiracy though. I mean, the DNC has certainly conspired against him behind the scenes in petty ways, but that isn’t why he’s losing.

    The real challenge is engaging the eligible voters that aren’t paying attention and then wonder why nothing gets done.

  553. heimaey says:

    Some of us don’t see the vast difference between Clinton and Trump that you do. Some of us see two shitty choices before us, and not necissarly one that will stave off disaster. We see a broken system and we want to fight it – not accept it.

    And I’ve donated and petitioned and organized for Democrats for 25 years and this is the last straw for me.

  554. rhetoricus says:

    Lecturing Berners about “duty” never works out well. Pointing out platform similarity, though, is smart.

  555. Bill_Perdue says:

    It’s very restful. I live near an avenue that ambulances use and I never feel the urge to run after them.

  556. BeccaM says:

    If you actually think you’re a political hostage, you really don’t have perspective at all.

  557. Mike Korschek says:

    I fully support your right to vote for anyone you would like and it is none of my business what you do (or don’t do) in the voting booth. I just don’t understand the point of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

    And there are other ways of protesting and fixing the system. Get involved in local organizing, petition your representatives in the government (local, state, and federal), raise money for issues or candidates you care about, start petition drives. As fun as it is to be cynically jaded about the political process, if people with good intentions don’t try to fix it, it won’t get fixed.

    As far as the election of 2016 goes you may not be getting an entire cake (Sanders), but isn’t a piece of cake (Clinton) several tons better than getting your house lit on fire (Trump)?

  558. heimaey says:

    If she’s elected they’ll leave me alone after 6 – I don’t see how she could fuck this up given her possible running mates.

  559. hiker_sf says:

    Yes, I was joking.

  560. peteywheats says:

    Try 4 years and 6 months.

  561. Bill_Perdue says:

    If you can prove I’m dead wrong then reply, with proof, to my comments below about the courts.

  562. peteywheats says:

    You mean the democrats are “toasting” each other because Canadian Ted just stuck a hateful total-failure to his ticket?

  563. Bill_Perdue says:

    Evidently you don’t understand that the two parties are the same.

    Both support wars of aggression, racism and union busting. If those are your priorities then feel free to vote for them by voting for Democrats and/or Republicans.

  564. Rainbird says:

    That seems like something one should even be proud of! :-)

  565. peteywheats says:

    Just once, I’d like to see a pro-Hillary argument that appeals to liberals that is not simply “Well, look at the GOP, they’re worse”.

  566. Rainbird says:

    You are like a one line Charlie aren’t you?

  567. Bill_Perdue says:

    I try to be a decent person and freely admit to not being a lawyer.

  568. Doug105 says:

    Kind of makes you wonder if Clinton is really as far right as Berners make out.

  569. peteywheats says:

    Scary to think that Trump actually believes more in socialized medicine than Hillary. He said that the Scottish system (single payer socialized medicine) is preferable to Private Insurance Mandate Obamacare, I agree, Hillary does not.

  570. Bill_Perdue says:

    BS is not likely to win because this is not a democracy. “The Fix is on”.

    The best bet for the left, given the nondemocratic nature of the D&R parties and laws restricting democracy is to build mass movements to compel change and use elections to build and promote struggles for democratizing unions, making unions relevant by moving them the left, promoting things like decent wages and socialized medicine, Black Lives Matter, the antiwar movement, etc.

  571. Demosthenes says:

    You are dead wrong in all regards. Obviously you’re not a lawyer.

  572. Demosthenes says:

    That is the basic reason I support Ms. Clinton. Evidently you prefer GOP choices for the Court. Why?

  573. heimaey says:

    I’m not convinced Hillary will get any real liberals on the court so not really – sorry but I have chosen to vote with convinctions not pragmatism this round.

  574. Rainbird says:

    Hasn’t anyone explained to you the devil in those details?

  575. Bill_Perdue says:

    Try something new.

  576. Doug105 says:

    My sin remembered, not voting against Bush. Because surely America couldn’t be that stupid.

  577. Demosthenes says:

    So you would like more far right justices on the Supreme Court, right?

  578. Bill_Perdue says:

    Democrat and Republican judges respond to mass movements and vote for or against us on the basis of pressure, not on the basis of who appointed them.

  579. Bill_Perdue says:


    The courts and Congress, including the Supremes, respond to public pressure when it comes to making decisions regarding workers rights, voter rights, LGBTQ rights, women’s reproductive rights, and civil rights. Their decisions are a reflection of the level of popular opposition to union busting, racism, misogyny and homophobia and not the political affiliations of judges.

    That kind of public pressure is the sole reason for the passage of Bown v. Board of Education of Topeka, 347 U.S. 483 (1954). It was the product of steady pressure by the black community and by propaganda by the USSR and by real leftists abroad who depicted the US as a racist backwater.

    Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. (1973) and Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003) were likewise influenced by domestic and foreign politics, not by the party affiliation of the Supremes, who are, after all, just robed politicians.

    The pro-marriage decisions by the state Supremes in Massachusetts and California were rendered by Republican judges. What that means is that in those cases, according to the analysis of some Democrats, their own party was not the ‘lesser evil’ in those two cases. The truth is that the level of pressure by movements for change and not the party affliction of judges is what determines their decisions. The marriage equality decision of the US Supremes, Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U.S. ___ (2015), was based on mounting militant mass movements and actions in favor or equality.

  580. Demosthenes says:

    So you’d rather the GOP name justices to the Supreme Court. Pure genius.

  581. heimaey says:

    The election has already been decided for months. Last night MD won with 0% reporting. Now HRC has apparently won IN and they don’t vote until May. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChEtYMNW0AAB6zw.jpg

  582. AdrianLesher says:

    “When Hillary and Bernie were in the Senate, they voted together 93% of the time. ” Kind of makes you wonder if Sanders is really the “politically extreme” near-Stalinist you were making him out to be.

  583. Bill_Perdue says:

    No, she hasn’t. She’s lying just like B Clinton did when he said he was opposed to wars and murdered half a million Iraqi children.

    And just like he did when he said he wasn’t a racist and then ended welfare and hired 100,000 plus new killer cops.

    And just like he did when he wooed the LGBT vote and then promoted and signed DADT and DOMA.

    She’s lying just like Obama did.



    health care




    People who believe the campaign lies of Republicans and Democrats force the rest of us to live with the consequences.

  584. heimaey says:

    Don’t see much difference between her and GW Bush on foreign policy.

  585. Demosthenes says:

    So you prefer the GOP select Supreme Court justices over Ms. Clinton. How clever.

  586. heimaey says:

    The Dems can beat that team easy peasy.

  587. heimaey says:

    Shifted how? She’s a hawk. When she’s in office we’ll have more wars – look out Syria.

  588. heimaey says:

    Yeah it’s people like John who were merciless in their criticism in Sanders that has lead many of us to distance ourselves from supporting Hillary. It’s a little too little too late.

  589. Demosthenes says:

    Secy. Clinton has shifted leftward since 2008. Obviously you prefer GOP picks for the Supreme Court.

  590. Rainbird says:

    No, I might vote Jill Stein, but more likely I will write in Bernie. It will be really interesting to see his votes add up in November. The democratic party has shifted right and I will not follow.

  591. hiker_sf says:

    It doesn’t matter – the Democrats are toast:

    Ted Cruz Picks Carly Fiorina As Running Mate Ahead Of Indiana Primary

    Not The Onion:


  592. pliny says:

    If you’re writing this for catharsis out of frustration from trying to get your point across, then you do you.

    I have to say though that as a Bernie or Bust type, I find this utterly unconvincing. Hillary doesn’t owe me shit, and she’d make an okay president under other circumstances. I certainly would have preferred her to her husband in the ’90s.

    This is 2016 though, and the challenges we face call for drastic action. Hillary is more than capable
    of providing it, but has made it abundantly clear that she will not do so. Feel free to speculate on why, but it doesn’t really matter. What does matter is that putting her in office means a likely eight years of Income Inequality getting steadily worse, accelerating Climate Disruption, continuing torture and illegal detention, expanded warrant-less surveillance of US citizens, attacks on encryption, and a
    war with Iran if Israel (or at least the hard-right running it) gets it’s way.

    It’s not enough to just be better than the worst option on the table anymore. It’s not about pride, or spite. It’s not even about revenge for the DNC’s crooked behavior or the apparent election fraud in Illinois and likely-just-incompetence-and-republican-voter-supression-laws in other

    It’s about not giving a mandate to half-measures in the face of looming disaster.

    Right now, I’m voting for Bernie and praying for a miracle. If he fails to get the nomination, Jill Stein is my next choice. If Hillary chooses to change course in a believable way before the election, I may change my mind on that.

    If she gets real about single payer, or climate change, or the middle east, or our broken Wall Street regulatory system, or really just shows that she’s willing to fight to *change* what’s possible rather than just accepting the status quo on any issue, I’d gladly pull the lever for her in good conscience.

  593. heimaey says:

    I’m using my vote as my only voice of protest against the mess our system is. That’s my choice and you don’t have to like it.

  594. heimaey says:

    Yeah it looks like she’ll win anyway regardles of my vote but I will undoubtedly continue to hear how much of an asshole I am for the next six months.

  595. judybrowni says:

    Bernie Bros gotta pout.

    Mucho example below.

  596. judybrowni says:

    President Trump thanks you!

    The rest of us will have to live in the hell your selfish pigheadedness creates.

    Or maybe not, since a recent poll of millenials indicates they’re not selfish pigs like you.

  597. Mike Korschek says:

    I was more going for the line or argument that elections can have major consequences, 2000 being a recent example, instead of the strictly speaking of a Green party vote. I just don’t see the point sitting out or not voting for a candidate that will advance a good number of liberal and progressive policies when the alternative is exponentially worse (not to mention capable of causing damage for decades there after with SC nominations).

    Sometime not being an utter catastrophe for the country should be enough to earn a vote (or at least an anti-vote. Sure it isn’t a perfect situation, but we don’t live in a perfect world. If the choice is between a flawed liberal candidate and Trump I wouldn’t care if the flawed liberal candidate had kicked me in the shin while maintaining eye contact with me, they are the candidate most likely to advance policies that I care about and support and at the end of the day that is what I think people should vote on.

  598. stevesteffens says:

    Exactly. John, I have read you for years, but your attacks on Sanders have made me at least consider a vote for Jill Stein. I live in Tennessee, and it’s going for Trump no matter how I vote in the Presidential race. i will vote Democratic down the rest of the ballot, though.

  599. heimaey says:

    Not being held hostage anymore. No thanks BeccaM.

  600. Bill_Perdue says:

    The only point of elections in a non-democracy like the USA is to use them as a form of protest against homophobic bigotry, wars of aggression and racism by Democrats and Republicans.


  601. Kansachusetts says:

    John, I agree with your basic point, but you spent so much time unfairly attacking Sanders in recent weeks that perhaps it would be better for you to step back and let someone else say it.
    That said, I hope this surprising return to Americablog is more than just a drive-by for you and that you start writing about the substantive things I used to enjoy reading here.
    I think Kos said it quite well today: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/4/26/1520509/-Clinton-hasn-t-won-Sanders-hasn-t-lost-This-is-bigger-than-any-single-primary

  602. Mike_in_the_Tundra says:

    I will hold my nose and vote for her and probably vomit afterwards. She doesn’t care about what Sander’s supporters are trying to tell her.

  603. BeccaM says:

    Y’know, you’re free now to bash Hillary Clinton all you like and she would support your right to do that, no matter how unfair or inaccurate the attacks are. She’s spent decades being called a bitch.

    Donald Trump wants to make criticizing him illegal.

    P.S. The Democrats don’t care about your ‘message’ of withholding a vote and never will. You can only change the system from the inside, not by quitting.

  604. heimaey says:

    I don’t think Sanders was going to save the world. But I’m a liberal and I will vote liberal, and when the Dems get the message and move to the left again, then they’ll get my vote.

  605. BeccaM says:

    So you’re going to vote against your own interests — or perhaps not participate at all — just because one of Hillary Clinton’s supporters offended you? Wow.

    For all of Bill Clinton’s many failings and lack of being anything like liberal or progressive, he gave us Stephen Breyer and Ruth Bader Ginsberg. A legacy on the Supreme Court which endures to today, 16 years after his term of office ended.

    When we were talking McCain or Romney, it could maybe be debated it was a “lesser evils” situation. But you’re actually okay with the idea of a President Trump? Truly, he’s just a slightly greater evil, in your mind, than Clinton?

    You need some perspective. Also, Senator Sanders is not and never has been the One True Candidate Who Will Save The World.

  606. heimaey says:

    Yeah such a softball question that Rachel threw and she flubbed it. Rachel is like ummmmm….I’m gonna rephrase this…wow is she is such a bad politician.

  607. heimaey says:

    People blame Nader but forget what a shitty campaign Gore ran and how horrible voter supression was in OH, and how sketchy FL was. Then there was that odd SCOTUS ruling. So Nader isn’t really to blame but he’s an easy scapegoat and that’s the narrative the Dems want so they don’t have to actually work for our votes but can run on “we’re not as bad as them” for as long as possible.

    This isn’t 2000 and it’s definitely not 2008 – and it looks like there could be some real momentum gaining from the distgruntled Sanders supporters – certainly enough to raise some concerns right now. Will it be enough to distrupt things and have an impact? Hard to say. HRC recently said she doesn’t need our votes, that she has enough already, so maybe she doesn’t care and thinks she can win without the youth vote and the liberal side of the party – and she may be able to. But she needs to earn my vote if she wants it. One way she can do that is by getting a populist running mate who will help pull her to the left as she constantly gravitates right. Warren would be an excellent choice – or even Sanders himself. We’ll see but I’m not just blindly voting for the lesser of two evils anymore and I don’t think I’m alone.

  608. Demosthenes says:

    Of all the Democrats I considered, she was my second least favorite. (My least favorite was Sen. Sanders). That said, I will happily vote for her to defeat Donald Trump.

  609. hiker_sf says:

    Disclosure: I hate Clinton and will vote for her in November if she is the Democratic candidate.

    That said, it is easy to see why Sanders supporters would turn their back on her – she doesn’t seem to want their votes and lets us know in the most arrogant, entitled way:


  610. Mike Korschek says:

    “The night of the election, you may feel a slight sting. That’s pride f***ing with you. F*** pride. Pride only hurts. It never helps. You fight through that shit.”

    Elections are about getting people into power that will advance your interests. Which candidate is more likely to do that, Clinton or Trump (barring some shenanigans at the Republican convention)? Sure, you might not get the whole cake from Clinton, but she won’t set you on fire and then charge you an arm and a leg for water.

    But if you want to sit out an election or vote for a third party that is your prerogative. But I remember the 2000 election and those consequences. They weren’t pretty, lots of people died, and we are still reaping that whirlwind even after 8 years of a Democratic President.

  611. Demosthenes says:

    It’ll take a few months, but the vast majority of the supporters of Sen. Sanders will ultimately go with Secy. Clinton. They will see the gaping difference in the issues. It happened in 2008 with Clinton voters going to Mr. Obama and it’ll occur this time as well.

  612. Rainbird says:

    This has been a paid political announcement by the Hillary Clinton for President campaign.

  613. heimaey says:

    Nope. Not gonna do it.

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