Jill Stein in Moscow criticized US human rights, said nothing about Russian human rights

Green party Jill Stein, who has expressed skepticism about the safety of vaccinations and wifi, has found another thing in the world that she finds dangerous: America.

And Stein decided to go to Moscow last winter to share her concerns.

And, what do you know, she’s happy to report she found an audience that agrees with her!

UPDATE: The Kremlin is now defending Stein, and attacking me, as a result of this article. That speaks volumes about just how important a tool Putin finds Stein for both his propaganda war and for helping Trump this election.

Stein’s report from Moscow is in the video below. She went to attend a conference hosted by the Russian state propaganda organ. In a sign of the importance Moscow put on the conference, Putin himself joined Stein and other attendees for dinner.

Green party presidential candidate Jill Stein criticizes the US in Moscow. (Is that a dead animal around her neck?)

Green party presidential candidate Jill Stein criticizes the US in Moscow. (Is that a dead animal around her neck?)

From Moscow, Stein noted that we “need to rein in US exceptionalism, and totally reform and revise our foreign policy so that it is based on international law, human rights and diplomacy.” Making those comments from Moscow, at this time, is rather unconventional, unless you work for Donald Trump.

With Red Square as her backdrop, Stein suggested that we need to “replace a US policy of domination with a way forward based on respect, collaboration, international law and human rights.”

She added, “we’ve seen that vision really resonate here.”

Oh I bet you did.

In fact, according to the video Stein published, Putin agrees with her:

Jill Stein putin

You’ll note in the video below, where Stein reports on what she said at the conference, that she only criticized the US.

Stein has nothing negative to say about Russian foreign policy, or Russia’s horrific lack of respect for human rights — Putin has journalists and other opponents killed. And we all know the way Putin treats LGBT people. Yet Jill Stein had nothing to say about any of that. She was too focused on criticizing the US at a conference put together by the Kremlin’s propaganda agency.

Heckuva job, Jill.

PS And for any of you feeling the Bern, Stein’s VP thinks Bernie Sanders is a white supremacist capitalist imperialist.

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis — Win a pony! (not really)

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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417 Responses to “Jill Stein in Moscow criticized US human rights, said nothing about Russian human rights”

  1. Spiny Norman says:

    “McCarthy-ite goons.”

    Imbecile. McCarthy was right-wing — and his fans still are. Ann Coulter, one of Trump’s major proxies, wrote an entire book about how much she idolizes McCarthy and his tactics.

  2. Spiny Norman says:

    Russia is not “red.” It is not remotely “red.”

    It is a petro-kleptocracy with a murderous authoritarian strongman as its President.

    Have you been asleep since 1989? If you have, that’s the year the Soviet Union ceased to exist.

  3. Daniel Alexander Lugo R says:

    Go go go Jill!!! We believe in you. We the people!

  4. Houndentenor says:

    No, Hillary does not take money from the Saudis. The Clinton Foundation has taken donations from the Saudis. None of the Clintons takes any kind of salary from the Foundation. Since when did leftists start cribbing right wing talking points? I honestly can’t tell whether I’m talking to a left-wing or right-wing idiot these days.

    And yes, she was late to the marriage equality position. Fortunately like many other Americans she came around on that issue. If no one could evolve on gay rights we’d still not have gay rights at all. I’m glad people can change their minds.

  5. 99%er says:

    Where? Like in Saudi Arabia? Honduras (look up Berta Cáceres)? Libya?

  6. 99%er says:

    Meanwhile, Hillary takes money from the Saudis, which represses women. As for gay rights, she only recently changed her view that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

  7. Ferry_Fey says:

    Uh, if the text I quoted that was featured on Jill Stein’s Russia video is a “hit piece” that “doesn’t reflect Jill at all,” she’s shooting herself in the foot, since she features it on her campaign website.

  8. John Richard Clinton Maenpaa says:

    Just because you’re paranoid, doesn’t mean we’re not out to get you…

  9. Aaron Maxwell says:

    you are an expert level idiot

  10. WithheldName says:

    It looks like the Greens currently only have mayors and serve on city councils and in other local offices (http://www.gp.org/officeholders). This year, it looks like Jill Stein will receive 7 million votes, twice as many as Nader ever received. Her support has quintupled since her last run and has tripled so far this year and is still growing. If the Greens continue to grow like this, they could have a notable influence on politics in the upcoming decades. Bernie Sanders gained 15 million supporters on a platform that was about 90% overlap with the Green platform. Like Sanders, the Greens refuse corporate donations – but have done so for decades. If they could get organized and get exposure, there are enough voters in the U.S. who support Green ideals to win state and national offices.

  11. Houndentenor says:

    Libertarians often have been good on gay issues and not just recently. Alas, neither the Greens nor the Libertarians carry any weight in our politics. Does either party even have a seat in a state legislature?

  12. WithheldName says:

    The Green Party has been way ahead of the Democrats on LGBTQIA+ rights for years. They were calling for marriage equality over a decade ago, if I’m not mistaken.

  13. WithheldName says:

    Let’s talk honestly here. Putin’s opening his arms to the American Green Party is no reflection on any sort of Green Party “loyalty” to Russia or any sort of “collusion” with Russia. It simply means Putin would love to see the American Green Party gain power. Any guesses why? It’s not hard to guess; the Green Party is heavily influenced by Bernie-style, European-style democratic socialism. The Green Party wants to ease off the American-led nuclear arms race and cool down the American-led wars in the Middle East. Both of those would be good for Russia. And that’s not a bad thing. The Green Party doesn’t want to surround, starve, and crush Russia. The Green Party wants to live and let live. Should we be suspicious of Russia? Probably. Should we care if Putin is warmly receiving Jill Stein? Absolutely not.

  14. WithheldName says:

    This sounds like more guessing and first impressions. I’ve seen hours of Jill’s interviews and speeches. Check them out with an open mind and form your own opinion. This Russian video above was just a cheap snippet wrapped around a planned narrative. It was a hit piece. This doesn’t reflect Jill at all.

  15. WithheldName says:

    Maybe from just seeing this video one might think that. But this wasn’t her finest moment. She’s actually pretty sharp. She has lots of interviews on YouTube and you can make up your own mind.

  16. Claude Jacques Bonhomme says:

    Interesting, then, that Democratic-appointees on the Supreme Court voted against so-called Citizens United, and Republican-appointees voted for it and carried the day. Yes, there are corporate interests within the Democratic party, but they are less extreme than those of the Republican party.

    For war, both parties have had their ample share of hawkish moments. In most recent memory, the W administration got into an illegal war, giving a big f.u. to most of the allies, for purely corporate Haliburton concerns. That is quite unprecedented.

  17. WithheldName says:

    This video wasn’t her finest moment. I’ve seen hours of her interviews and speeches and I think she’s pretty sharp, at least most of the time. If you haven’t seen much more of her than this video, check out more with an open mind and I bet you appreciate more about her.

  18. WithheldName says:

    Amazingly enough, most Democrats that I talk to have zero clue about the Obama war machine. They’re still fuming about Bush’s invasions and think that Obama is the guy who won the Nobel Peace Prize and “ended Bush’s 2 wars”. Because MSNBC, CNN, ABC, WP, and the NYT don’t exactly spill the beans on Obama’s war machine, do they? Because they fear that doing so might unwittingly help the Republicans or appear racist or make people sad or lose ratings. The Democratic Party today thrives on apathy, conformity, and limited information. For most people today, the Democratic Party is the cool one to belong to, with all the rappers and actors and young people. It’s like the “Pepsi Generation” marketing campaign. The Republicans are “uncool, rednecks, church-going, old white people”. Most Democrats today don’t even know what the TPP stands for and think that Obama and Hillary are fighting to stop Climate Change. Our democracy has been hijacked by successful corporate marketing.

  19. Brian Hicks says:

    John Aravosis, did you read all the little news clippings during the second half of the video? Stein does criticize Russia. She compares it to the United States in terms of spending more money on war and it’s military than it does on the welfare and well-being of it’s people. As a Green Party supporter, I have been getting concerned at the GP’s increasingly regular defense of Russia – such as siding with Russia during the invasion of Ukraine, while all the European Green parties sided with Ukraine – but in this instance Stein is basically calling out both sides.

  20. Contisertoli says:

    Uh yeah, we “didn’t want to badly enough”. Or are you forgetting HRC loving herself some DOMA as recently as 2008?

    And all the BS about “adults can get to work”? Please. I look forward to TPP and all that other “adult” bullshit that just further comforts the obscenely wealthy at the expense of those on the margins. But oh, she just sounds so progressive!

    Enjoy all that incremental “progress”.

  21. baruchzed says:

    Red baiting is so last century…and truly a sign of desperation and lack of imagination. Shilling for Clinton, the most corrupt candidate ever to run for the US Presidency, should be a source of embarrassment for the author of this foolishness.

  22. You are a cheap shill. If you are an example of what passes for an ‘American’ today, then I’m moving overseas. The US is going down the drain because of people like you.

  23. Jill Stein was saying that Putin agreed with her that US and Russia must engage in greater dialogue and collaboration to try to resolve
    security threats constructively and allow better conditions for people
    of the world, but still in the opinion of Aravosis the a-hole, Putin agrees
    with her so she should be condemned.

  24. LOL!!!! That’s a good one! In case you haven’t noticed, the Democratic party has been a party of pro-corporate sell-outs and pentagon wh0r3s for at least a few decades now. What have the democrats done to promote peace in the world, or go against the status quo. Name one thing. Come to think of it, it is traditionally the democratic presidents who were the biggest warmongers.

  25. Russia isn’t any worse towards homosexuals than the US, so everyone just needs to get the f off their creaky pedestals. This whole schtick about Russia being tyrannical towards gays is just a smear campaign tactic; has been from day one. No one is the US regime, past and present gives a hoot about gays in Russia. It’s just a stick to poke Russia with because Russia refuses to take orders from the US. Peel away all the BS and false accusations, and that’s what it is, and ever was all about.

  26. I’ve seen pictures of Killary meeting with Putin. So according to her, she is a Putin spy herself, right?

    All of you supporting this wicked witch of the west should be ashamed of yourself. Who are you? You are just as pathetic and stupid as all those people who went ga-ga for old GWB.

    You are morons.

  27. SocraticGadfly says:

    Aravosis becoming an ever-more-pathetic Hillbot and general douche.

  28. kingbtd says:

    Julian Assange spoke at the Green Party convention, and he already warned of us of sociopaths like yourself, Mr. Aravosis. It’s too bad that so many twisted individuals like yourself have a voice, but those are the kinds of freedoms people like Assange and Stein are still trying to protect. I would feel sorry for you if you weren’t so evil…banally evil. Cheers to you, Mr. Goebbels! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RT_djNa5lQ

  29. Bill_Perdue says:

    Since the us is not a democracy our work should be aired at creating one.

  30. WithheldName says:

    Yawn. A non-story here. Her criticisms of American policy are A) basically accurate, and B) consistent with what she’s said for years. So you want her to criticize Russia while standing in Red Square? She was trying to build bridges with Russia. It’s a good idea. Maybe next time the author should ease off the click-bait journalism and delve into some more substance.

  31. Since before Mirdad left the building, he questioned my “geopolitical sensibilities” to have any idea what’s going on in Russia, so I had prepared the following response:

    No, I got my geopolitical sensibilities by learning to speak 5 languages while getting a JD and MSFS at the Georgetown School of Foreign Service (I studied Russian too, but don’t speak it, so it’s not counted as number 6), passing the US Foreign Service exam, then going to work in the US Senate on arms control issues, among other topics, and at the UN, interning at CSIS, a US Embassy, the Italian Embassy. Traveling around the world training NGOs. Oh yeah, and travel to the USSR, Russia and Eastern Europe too. For starters.

    Other than that, no background on the issue whatsoever.

  32. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    The problem I have is someone here dividing the liberal vote because the liberal candidate who got picked by ALL Democrats isn’t liberal enough for you. Right now, I don’t care about what goes on in Syria, because right here in the US, there’s a Fascist trying to win the Election. If Trump wins, you’ll have wars with far more than Syria. Unlike you, I am fully happy to move partially towards my goal rather than take massive steps back because other Democrats picked the less favorable candidate.

    My problem is not with that, though. It’s with you. Your holy crusade for the pure Liberal is daaaamn convenient for the Shitgibbon and his legion of followers. THAT is why I’m calling you a right-wing troll. It’s awful convenient that you’re working to depress Clinton’s votes…makes it MUCH easier to get Trump into office. But I tell you what. Get Stein up to 40% in the polls, and I’ll change my tune. Until then? You’re helping Trump. Good bye!

  33. mirdad says:

    You defend the joker who thought I was a Russian, and call me a right wing troll for supporting progressive policies and candidates. I can’t wait until this BS election is over. Perhaps then you will be forced to talk about issues instead of endless stupid fearmongering and dragging the so-called liberal party further and further into a right wing gutter, continuing in the time honored tradition of the last President Clinton. Please do tell how overthrowing the govt. of Syria with bunch of militia gangsters is going to be so, so, so much better than if a Republican did it. The problem you have is that your candidate has a long track record of service, full of atrocious judgements and extremely destructive policies. You want to talk about anything but that. I get it.

  34. Jeromie Hartsough says:

    When the U.N. points out our human rights violations nobody cares. Jill Stein does it and everybody loses their mind. Shouldn’t she care about this country and its problems? It’s a pretty sorry hit piece that attempts to smear a candidate for caring about the citizens of her country.

  35. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Here’s the thing, trolikins. If you were here saying, “Vote hard-core Liberal and Green down-ticket, even as you vote for the crook at the top”, I’d have much less beef with you. But you’re not talking about that. In fact, you only reluctantly bring up Team Red when confronted with what you’re doing — tanking the only realistic left-leaning candidate because she’s not left-leaning enough for how you portray yourself on the Internet, with your profile that suggests the ONLY thing you care about is politics (hint: that makes you look like a troll).

    Stein won’t win. End of line. She barely manages to get above 1%. For all your talk about how hated Clinton is, your candidate can’t manage to get off the ground floor, and for good reason. Every Clinton voter you manage to hoodwink into Stein because ‘Clinton isn’t liberal enough’ is one less vote that Trump has to con. hoodwink, and outright make up to win. It’s one less vote to say Trump is purely unacceptable. What you’re trying to do is peel Clinton voters off of Stein, so that it splits the Liberal vote. Fortunately, many of us Liberals study world politics enough to know what this leads to — a Liberal party saying the New Democratic Party is too liberal, while the NDP says the Libs aren’t liberal enough, splitting up 55 to 60% of the vote, allowing the Conservatives with 40 to 45% of the vote to surge ahead and form the government. It’s the same thing here in the US. If the Green manages to peel 10% off of the 45% of the vote the Democrats get, then even with 10% of the vote going to Team Libertarian, the 40% that votes for the Cheeto’d Dictator gets their wish, which helps the Shitgibbons that support Il Duce, Il Duce Shitgibbon himself, every tinpot-Fascist who ever dreamed of the Beacon of Liberty itself going over to Fascism, proto-Fascist Putin who has a personal beef against Clinton, and every other anti-Liberal racist, nativist, fascist, jingoist asshat in the US and around the world. You know who it hurts? Every liberal, leftist, moderate, and sane American citizen, including the Greens and the Libertarians.

    You, ‘mir’dad, are here arguing that CLINTON BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD. What purpose does it serve? You’re not getting Jill Stein elected. We’ve already covered that. We should be kissing the feet of the Libertarians because they’re spoiling Trump the same way you’d spoil Clinton if you got your way. No. You’re here to split the Liberal vote, pushing hopes for a Liberal Utopia that doesn’t exist in the real world. Either you’re a deluded Green who needs to be exposed as the fool you are, or, far, far, far more likely, you’re a Rightie plant that needs to be exposed as the manipulative jerk you are.

    Short answer, trolikins? We aint’ buyin’ what you’re sellin’ here. John’s calling you all ruskies, because you’re at a minimum a useful idiot for Trump’s dear friend Putin. I’m just going to skip that label and go with the one I much rather. Troll.

    And I leave you with this thought. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. ;) There are bound to be Green echochambers across the internet you can go to have your silly little notions validated. But you chose to come here. I’m here. So is John. So are all the other people who are calling you out. If you can’t take a little name calling? I invite you to go to those echo chambers. :)

    Keep on trolling on!

  36. mirdad says:

    Again, I said nothing about what she can’t do. I referred to a platform position the party has taken in response to criticism and a clear dissatisfaction by registered Democrats that resulted in support for Bernie Sanders and the policies he promoted. We know what “team red” will do, and we know what their positions are costing them in terms of public support.

    I comment on Hillary because that is the more important question. What will she do to improve a still failing health insurance system, protect the environment from the fracking craze she pushed as SoS, protect against FTAs that she has so vehemently supported in the past, which effectively deregulate industry and put decisions about public health and welfare in the hands of mega-corporations? You can’t keep claiming liberalism while tacking to the right and promoting policies that exacerbate wealth inequality and militarism, even if you do it a little less extremely than your competition.

    And if you want to tell someone how to think and how to vote and what to comment on while calling names, I suggest you stick to talking to your cats.

  37. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    If you want to prove Jill Stein wrong how about your candidate supporting a public option for health insurance instead of more war and intervention based on lies?

    Not ranting about what Hillary can’t do.

    Obama got us something that the Republicans have fought tooth and nail against. The Republicans are in a position to fight tooth and nail because…well, people like you come in and dish on Clinton rather than going out and voting for Liberal candidates wherever you are. So now, Team Red has control of the political process. Even if Stein COULD win (hint: She can’t…all she can do is ensure Trump wins), she too would be marginalized and defanged by the GOP you’re actually helping with your rants.

    But I won’t bother explaining it to you any further. If you’re authentic American Green, you’ve already made your mind up. And since you’re much more likely to be a sock puppet polititroll, (Seriously, over 3 years, you’ve not commented on a single non-political topic? Yeah, that sure doesn’t make any sense) it’s in your best interests not to have your mind challenged.

    So, I leave you with the call of your people.


  38. mirdad says:

    I don’t rant about what Hillary can’t do. That’s you preparing political cover for when she abandons every progressive position she has given lip service to in the campaign.

    If you think her lead is solid, great. I never expected any different, which is why I intend to vote green in my blue state. And yes I vote the whole ballot and don’t expect that the President alone really means a whole hell of a lot, but growing numbers of voters leaving the major parties put of dissatisfaction with their policies does have an impact.

    Obama tried…no Obama made compromise deals with Insurance cos. to get something through, unfortunately something that doesn’t address the most fundamental problems with the health insurance system.

    “Ultimately, the public option failed as a result of many factors, including lack of support from moderate and conservative Democrats, opposition from Republicans and health care interest groups, and ultimately an absence of strong support from the White House.”

    -Health Affairs

    We’ll see if Hillary “tries” to imrpove it, beyond more neoliberal privatization of public resources and other corporate profit-making schemes. Perhaps if her voters demanded anything of her beyond not being Trump she would have some incentive.

  39. lilyhammer says:

    Don’t assume that other people haven’t done their homework.
    1) Polls say it’s a very small percent; 2) I don’t think Jill Stein is decent, logical or honorable but I think Hillary Clinton is.

  40. Jesse Larner says:

    It means “Hello comrade.”

  41. Martharsievers1 says:

    <<q:i. ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::::!!bz598a:….,

  42. Bill_Perdue says:

    I understand. And this is not meant as advice or a warning because I could care less about whether the Democrats or Republicans win (because it makes no difference at all) but just as an observation – millions of people are offended by racist islamophobia, mass deportations, bigoted laws and union busting.

  43. mirdad says:

    Wow. Boris. I get it. Like the cartoon character. Takes one to know one. Or maybe you got your geopolitical sensibilities from an old episode of Get Smart. Take that worn out old schtic back to whatever decade you dredged it up from. It appears to be causing you hallucinations.

  44. kahuna754 says:

    It’s a tiny percent. She is not personable and her ads are not helping her.

  45. kahuna754 says:

    Jill is.

  46. Moderator3 says:

    You had another comment about Soros and the Kochs. The other was removed because it was redundant.

  47. pyrophilia says:

    Late Bloomer just learning to drive at the age of 30 but Here I am after my Teacher took me all the way down Highway 26 to Highway 101


    I’m driving.

  48. Uncle Luie says:

    well we know where you are coming from

  49. Uncle Luie says:

    Excellent post.

  50. pyrophilia says:

    No one cares, Soros has used his money benevolently. It’s Koch who has used it for evil. It’s not about the Political money, it’s about how they’ve used that money.

  51. pyrophilia says:

    No one cares, Soros has used his money benevolently. It’s Koch who is evil.

  52. pyrophilia says:

    Yeah I might not get along everywhere over here but at least I don’t belong over at Redstate or Free Republic.

  53. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    “A few points”

    The latest poll by Monmouth University (rated A+ by Fivethirtyeight) has Clinton up 13 points. Adjusting for Monmouth’s historical bias, FiveThirtyEight still has her up 12 points. I don’t know what planet you live on, but here, on Earth, 12 or 13 points, especially in this hyper-partisan country we live in, is not ‘a few points’.

    Your rant about what Hillary can or can’t do ignores a simple fact. Jill Stein her f*cking self can’t give you a public option for healthcare, or free college education, or any of the other things the Greens want. No President can, at least, not without a congress that’s happy to send that legislation to her desk. Obama tried. And thanks to jerkwads in the House and Senate, that idea came off the table really damn quick. Stein can throw a temper tantrum on national TV. The Repubs will merely laugh at her, record that sh*t for the next election, and go on doing the same BS they’ve done time and time again. Stein can’t do it. Sanders can’t do it. Clinton can’t do it. You want it done? You should have gotten Greens for Senate and House this year, which meant a deep bench of qualified candidates, which means you should have had governors and state representatives running two years ago, which would require a system in place to pick those people, so four years ago you’re utilizing your City and County organs to pick those reps and senators, which of course you build 6 years ago.

    And awfully conveniently, your ranting about how non-Liberal the Dems are is extremely helpful for the Trumpster. And you wonder why we call you Trump plants…

  54. Hey, far be it for me to tell Clinton supporters that she has this election sewn up — because it’s dangerous when your supporters think they’ve already won, they end up not turning up to vote — but you’re smoking something if you think Hillary isn’t doing well in the polls. Yet another sign that you’re part of a paid troll brigade – you couldn’t even be bothered to follow American news of the past 3 days. Hillary is ahead of Trump by 10 to 12 points right now. It’s a ridiculously large lead.

    Oh, and the expression is “sound familiar?” Not “sounds familiar,” Boris. You write “sounds familiar” in the affirmative, and “sound familiar?” in the interrogative.

    I hope they have room in the gulag for you, cuz you trolls suck at mimicking American English.

  55. mirdad says:

    For people trying to understand why Clinton supporters are starting to sound more and more like John Birchers, keep in mind that they are giving their all to support a candidate with a 50+ unfavorable rating who has spent 13.5 times as much on advertising ($50 mil + more) than her opponent and is still only ahead by a few points. What else do they have other than fear of the big boogeyman who is going to destroy America (boy, sounds familiar)? Clinton has been a connoisseur of big scary boogeyman politics for her entire career. Take a good look at a preview of her administration – rank hypocrisy, name-calling, guilt by association and aggressive, bellicose agitprop. If you want to prove Jill Stein wrong how about your candidate supporting a public option for health insurance instead of more war and intervention based on lies?

  56. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Oh, and we even know what kind of troll you are!

    “SJW”. Seriously. Bye, clown!

  57. joey_c says:

    1. i didn’t say “red baiting”. you’re still using ties with russia to try and smear people.

    2. as many have eloquently explained before me, the obligation that a citizen of a particular nation has is to find fault first with their own home, inasmuch as that is where they have the most influence. the practice of criticizing other nation’s human rights record while ignoring our own problems with human rights is one of our politicians’ ugliest tics. the idea that u.s. citizens have an obligaiotn to avoid criticizing the u.s. while abroad is farcical.

    3. my recollection is that while a senator and s.o.s. clinton continued u.s. relations with plenty of problematic regimes that violate people’s human rights, from egypt to honduras yemen to bahrain to turkey to saudi arabia.

    4. i only defend stein inasmuch as i find your article to be in appropriate to write about any political figure. i am not a stein supporter and do not intend to vote for her.

  58. In my dreams. Sadly, I work on my own. I did pass the Foreign Service exam, however.

  59. I’m sorry, did communism come back? You do understand that Putin isn’t a communist, as far as we know, and Russia is not communist. Now, that doesn’t mean that Putin isn’t trying to influence our election — that’s already pretty much been established. And it’s also established that Jill Stein did go to moscow, did sit with Putin, and did devote her time to criticize the US on human rights while sitting with one of the greatest human rights violators in the world. That’s not proud leadership. Hillary stood up the Chinese in 1996 when she went to Beijing. Where was Jill when we needed her?

    So if you’re going to defend Jill, and you are defending Jill here, respond to the facts. She went to a place where LGBT people, and journalists, are kidnapped and killed, and she said nothing.

  60. joey_c says:

    i thought we’d collectively decided (at least those of us who are left of center) that mccarthyism went out with mccarthy.

    i’m no fan of putin, but guilt-by-association smack-talking against a fringe 3rd party candidate just to try and smooth the path of the democratic nominee is needless, silly, and indicative of a lack of both morality and couth.

  61. Ron Chusid says:

    I see. Putin does bad things. Therefore it is ok for you to write a dishonest article such as this about Stein. Somewhere there is a serious breakdown in your logic, and ethics.

  62. Stephen Michael French says:

    yeah, not so long as Hillary and Trump control the media.

  63. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    But you know the one thing a heterosexual can do that a gay can’t?

    They can marry the person they love.

    Rights aren’t so equal after all, are they?

    PS. Redstate is THAT WAY. —————————————>
    So is FreeRepublic. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out! :)

  64. Banjolina Violetta says:

    Hillbots are paid to post lies and obfuscate. Good jobs are hard to find….so we understand. But how does it feel, as an American, to know that you are subverting the democratic process and that you promote evil in the world?

  65. Mike Ennamorato says:

    One can be guilty of many logical fallacies at the same time, they are not exclusive to each-other.

    The fact that you refuse to even glimpse at an opposing viewpoint proves you and “your gang” is nothing more than a circle-jerk — and labeling your oppositions “trolls” or what have you yes, mean you are attempting to block them out. Credit due where credit is due, at least your Mod is not some SJW-freak who blocks (directly) any opinion that is not his, but that doesn’t make him any smarter nor reasonable.

  66. Mike Ennamorato says:

    Best question: are you (working for the State Dept.)?

  67. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Hey, looks like we have another Putin Troll. English. Do you speak it? :P

  68. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Shorter you: “I know you are but what am I?”

    Even shorter you: “TROOOOOOLOLOLOLOL!”

    And I see the goal posts have moved. From blocking to “circlejerking”. What a riot.

    If you don’t like it here, trolikins, then…well, head on out. We won’t miss you. ;)

  69. Better question: are you?

  70. Seedee Vee says:

    I hear paranoia is one step away from pedophilia, John. You should put down that crack pipe before someone gets hurt, dude.

  71. tomciviletti says:

    Whoever wrote this blog is a disinformationalist.

  72. Seedee Vee says:

    Is Hillary Actually Working For The Russian Mafia? Here is what the New York Times thinks!


  73. Seedee Vee says:

    This just in : John Aravosis is still a slimy Clinton Stooge.

  74. Update, y’all. It seems the Kremlin is vewy vewy angwy that we criticized Jill. With friends like that…


  75. Mike Ennamorato says:

    Given your pathetic and emotionally motivated response, I am sure *you* are the one being mocked.

    Not to mention the intellect of anyone who takes this site serious and/or as fact, which would seem to be severely lacking.

  76. WarrenHart says:

    Jill is a dupe who was used by Russia secret service. Jill Stein is too stupid to hold public office.

  77. George King says:

    So Mr Private, can’t see my comments you explain everything “So…we’re not blocking a damn thing.” You must be an employee or God forbid stupid troll on your own site.

  78. Pedro says:

    Cute little political spin you tried there John despite knowing nothing about me and potentially being libelous by falsely accusing me of endorsing gross human rights violations. But while we’re on the topic of human rights, maybe you’d be interested in talking about the Clintons being friends with and taking money from shady human rights violating leaders through the Clinton Foundation. Oh wait, but that’s not to the political advantage of your preferred candidate, is it?

    Your own response to my post is part of what I mean by people in Clintonland being so touchy. I say one mildly mean thing vaguely critical of your accusations of Jill Stein, and I get instantly libeled With accusations of endorsing human rights violations. If someone throws even one small amount of criticism, honestly dislikes Hillary Clinton, disagrees with her, or even tries to warn her supporters & surrogates not to underestimate Trump in the rust belt. Even some Clinton supporters aren’t spared. I was laughing hard when I saw reaction from Blue Nation Review & Neera Tanden to Michael Moore’s prediction that Trump would win in Nov. based on wins in the rust belt. It was an obvious warning to the Clinton folks not to get complacent. Yet even with him endorsing Hillary at the end of the primaries, Moore still got accused of cheering for Trump to win. Apparently even warning the Clinton campaign not to get complacent against Trump can get you in hot water. Tanden by the way, easily got her feelings hurt when Matt Bruenig said a little mean thing about her. And that was enough to get him fired from his job. Apparently, just dating to run against Hillary or disseminating facts not favorable to her is enough for one to be accused of plotting with Putin & the Russians, whether or not it’s true.

    All this is part of what I meant by touchy. And your response only further drove that point. Frankly, at this point, it’s all comedy to me. I’m at peace with the results of the primary even if they didn’t go my way & the fix was in as the DNC leaks showed. But clearly you’re not over the primary. Why else go after a small third party candidate with mere pennies in the bank compared to the Clinton money machine? Lucky for you, I’m not a high profile journalist or else I’d have a comedic field day with your libelous accusations.

  79. nicho says:

    Saddened, but not surprised, to see you’ve joined the Clinton camp’s vicious smear assault on Jill Stein. Using out of context quotes, half truths, and outright lies, Clinton is co-opting a lot of so-called liberals.

    And I’m not even a Jill supporter, just someone who is watching this disgusting scenario unfold. But I guess now we know why Bernie ended up supporting her. He most likely got the word they would end his political career and trash his legacy if he didn’t.

    Well, at least you know your invitation to the White House Holiday Party and Egg Roll will be in the mail. Enjoy the comos and cheesy poofs. All it cost was your integrity.

  80. George King says:

    You support Fascist and claim to be a fascist killer as well? I get what wanderer is saying, do you?

    The recently-revealed Russia/uranium deal involved undisclosed donations (part of a pattern, it turns out), in violation of a transparency agreement Hillary signed upon joining the State Department.

  81. Houndentenor says:

    Куда, куда вы удалились, весны моей златые дни…

  82. Andy says:

    The fact is that Hillary doesn’t feel the same way you do about ‘human rights”. What she feels strongly about is political expediency.

  83. The Russian government has enabled neo-Nazi gangs to kidnap and torture gay and trans people. Cømpare that to what the congress has done to gay and trans people, Mary. And I’m sorry, I’m have a very difficult time believing you live in Portland. You arguments are too cute by half.

  84. Sorry, but Pagans are hardly an oppressed minority in America today, and their oppression hardly compared to gay and trans being kidnapped, tortured and killed, or Putin killing his political opponents, including journalists. No, it is not the same thing that happens here that happens there. Try practicing paganism in Russia and see how well it goes.

  85. I do sing a little Russian as well

  86. Moderator4 says:

    Subsequent duplicate comments were deleted. Stop repeating yourself.

  87. pypski says:

    Bruh, it was an INTERNATIONAL invite. Where was Trump? Where was Hillary? I’ll tell you, they do not give a flying fuck about being a true ally to the globe. Jill represents the everyday American. She went to Russia to speak on behalf of us to fight for a global initiative to fight climate change. Those are the facts. If Putin agreed with her or not is irrelevant. She went to better not just the States but the world.

  88. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Hey, look! Another Putin Troll.

    1) Jill isn’t Anti-vax. She’s worse. She PANDERS to Anti-vaxxers. There is a sad, sad difference there. The difference is that she’s willing to spout things she knows are wrong in order to attract votes from deluded individuals. Much like you Putin and Trump Trolls that infest this blog.

    2) I’m not trying to convince YOU. You’re just a Putin Troll. I’m not trying to convince ‘Devoy’ either. He’s just a Trump Troll. You and he were never the intended audience.


  89. pypski says:

    If you did your homework you would understand: 1. It’s not a small percent. 2. We agree because she is a decent, logical, honorable human being. Can you say the same about any other candidate?

  90. pypski says:

    1. Anyone that thinks Jill is anti-vax is anti-facts. 2. You can not change or help anyone by ignoring them for fighting them. You must first become respected in their eyes so they accept your opinion and help.

  91. pypski says:

    Regardless of where he comes from, he is correct. Putin also believes in Global warming. That is why he hosted the conference.

  92. pypski says:

    Putin believes in Global warming. That is why he hosted the conference.

  93. pypski says:

    You can not help anyone by ignoring them or fighting them.

  94. pypski says:

    Putin believes in Global warming. That is why he hosted the conference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4R28THutKI

  95. Lux Tempo says:

    I’m trying to stay open minded about Jill Stein but I too have a big problem with a so called Green Party candidate cozying up to climate denier and human rights nightmare Putin.

  96. Bill_Perdue says:

    You Democrats gave us DADT, DOMA, attacks on unions, racist border policies with well over 2 million deportations and along with your Republican brothers and sisters have murdered well over a million muslims and Arabs.

  97. Don Chandler says:

    The worst thing about Jill Stein cozying up to Putin or Putin’s mouthpiece, RT, is that she is a green party candidate. Isn’t Putin a Climate Change denier? Russia’s main industry these days is Oil. Russia benefits from the use of oil and the ease of exploration and extraction of Oil resources. It’s even possible that Russia dreams of a warm water port at the expense of the whole world, what ever the consequence. A green party candidate can’t really stand in the same room with Putin and then rave about the dire consequences of Climate Change.

  98. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    First, you must prove that we’re calling Putin a Communist. It’ll be far easier for you to prove we’re calling him a Republican (Putin and the American GOP seem to have the same pushbutton issues, actually… :) ), but your task here is to prove we’re calling him a COMMUNIST…which you won’t be able to…because we aren’t.

    We’re saying that a borderline Fascist demagogue in Putin is supporting our own homegrown Fascist demagogue, and using our other politicians to attempt to sway the vote so that his homeboy Trumpster can get into office, and you’re here enabling him. That’s why all of you trolls are being greeted in Russian.

    Perhaps you should examine why your candidate of choice chose to head over to Russia to criticize the United States to a foreign power. Sure pandered to the likes of you. And that’s on top of pandering to anti-vaxxers with her stupid comments about vaccinations. Guess what! Your pol panders too! Welcome to the club. ;)

  99. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Come back and talk to us when you can organize a campaign that will bump Jill Stein up above 40% (the ceiling for Trump’s popular vote total). Until then, every vote you do manage to peel off of Clinton’s support will be one less vote the Trumpster will have to con to con his way into office.

    In short? We ain’t buying your sh*t here. Try Redstate. :)

  100. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    I’m a left-leaning independent, and wanted Sanders, but the bottom line is that Clinton is light-years better, for all the flaws Lefties might bring up about her, than the Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearing Sh*tgibbon is. End. Of. Line.

  101. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    And a few compliments to Hillary Clinton to turn them into a rabid Corporatist Fascist that hates gays and liberals (see: Elizabeth Warren) ;)

  102. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    I’m guessing you’re tagging this guy Russian as in ‘Russian patsey’, even if he isn’t Russian himself. I read him more as a Trumpet Troll, one of the legion of Trolls unleashed by the American Right to foul up discourse. Trollikins is still a Bridge Dweller, regardless….

  103. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    I’d say more like Italy in the 1920s, but that works too. ;)

  104. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Hillary’s chances remain as strong today as they have been for the last week, even as her post-convention bounce should continue to fade.

    We’ve been here before, actually. This is old hat and old crap to all of us who were around in 2008. “IMA VOTE FOR MCCAIN!!11!!shift+one!11!one!1” Well, we saw how that worked out. We’ll see how the Jill Stein Vote works out (she barely gets above 1%, so FiveThirtyEight isn’t tracking her numbers like the other three, so that should tell you something). I won’t waste the explanation of how your vote for Stein empowers Trump. You’re not here to have your mind changed, and there’s a non-insignificant chance you’re actually a Trumpet pretending to be a dissatisfied Sanders supporter….

    PS. You have 6 downvotes, which cancels out your 6 troll friends upvotes. ;)

  105. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Or perhaps he’s merely saying that this benefits Russia and, more directly, Trump. He can do that, too. And hey, if you’re gonna enable the Trump Movement, maybe you SHOULD start learning how to speak Russian. While you’re at it, learn Chinese as well, because SOMEONE is going to have to stop the Cheeto-Faced Ferret-Wearer and his legions of Red-Hats before they ruin the world, and that someone will probably be Russia and China…

  106. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    What’s dishonest about pointing out that the candidate was duped by a foreign power to criticize her own country without even a nod to the numerous criticisms about the foreign power, or pointing out that trolls pop in as soon as the article is posted and start eviscerating him and everyone who disagrees with him, using a particular bad brand of English that points to Slavic roots?

    You? You’re obviously not Russian, but you are sure blind to the shortcomings of Stein while eyes-wide-open to Clinton’s shortcoming. It’s your right, but it’s our right to point out that your choice of Stein results in direct support for a candidate who criticizes her country more than the country she criticized it to, as well as enables the guy who is very likely Putin’s choice in this election, the Cheeto-Faced One. If you don’t like that fact? Tough. You signed up for it when you posted here.

  107. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    No, we’re not blocking anything out. You can come here and say as much stupid here as you want. We’re not blocking you. We’re *laughing* at you. The only comments no longer on this blog have either received downvote moderation flags (you can view the comment by clicking through the moderation warning) or have been deleted by the author! Your own post is still here, even though it is overflowing with pure, abject STUPID. So…we’re not blocking a damn thing.

    We’re mocking you and laughing at you and holding you up as the stupid you are, though. I guess in your little world, that’s blocking you out. That’s OK. We’ll mock that too!

  108. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Well, JR, if you don’t like what we’re posting here, there’s always Redstate. They LOVE Trump over there. *smirk* *has trouble stifling the uproaring laughter he really wants to let out, considering Redstate’s position on the Tiny-Fingered, Cheeto-Faced, Ferret-Wearing [CENSORED: Defecation]gibbon. :)*

  109. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Hah. Thanks for leaving trolikin’s post up for us to read. That was amusing. ;)

  110. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    I agree with you. This country is filled with power-crazed, egotistical nitwit jerkwad [CENSORED: someone who wears their butt as headwear] [CENSORED: a wad of sex?] [CENSORED: that which is removed from one’s buttcrack after taking a dump] pieces of [CENSORED: defecation] pinheaded nitwits who [CENSORED: have sex with] their sisters while decrying the [CENSORED: gay people] and the [CENSORED: Black people] and the [CENSORED: Hispanics] and the [CENSORED: Arabic people]. And them’s their GOOD points. :)

    But I’m sure not going to distract myself with their [CENSORED: the action of wearing one’s butt as headwear]. I’m with Her. Full stop. I’ll not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I will not let the trolls and the Trumpets drive the discussion. They do not have the right. I will focus on doing the only thing I can — saying no joy to the Trumpets and the Russian Troll Mafia and casting my vote for Clinton in November. I suggest you do the same as well, but that’s just my advice.

    Don’t think the Left is free of consequence for this either. You identify a problem where true left-wing politics are not represented in this country. Part of that is the Right is definitely motivated, and in many parts of the country, the Right outvotes the Left. But you know what else we have? 50% or less voter participation. If 33% of the voting public is GOP, and another 60% of the 33% of independents lean Right, but only 50% of the country votes, then you’re letting 26% of eligible voters control the direction of the country if you are a Leftie who stays home and says your vote doesn’t matter. Plenty do. And plenty are responsible for the screwup that is the US.

    We’re all responsible for this. Lack of foresight. Lack of patience. Lack of due diligence and careful thought about the best ways to get things done. In many ways, Team Blue is the Dumb Party (with Team Red being the [CENSORED: anus] Party. If you have any wonder why we have this going on? This is why.

    Like emjayay said. Perhaps your needs are to leave this country and find one with people and culture closer to the one you want. I get you. I’m sick of America, and I’m sure not going to stay around as it turns into Fascist Italy of the 21st Century under the forces that let the Trumpster become the standard bearer for Team Red. My solution for this will be to say screw America and screw the jerks on the Right who are trying to turn her into Fascist Italy, and screw the jerks on the Left who force me to pick the corporatist to avoid that fate from happening. I suggest you look into it yourself. :)

  111. Blogvader says:

    He’s demanding it from Jill Stein because it’s what John does (at least during this election): Double-standards and character assassination.

    It’s also why he responds to your critique with ‘You’re a Russian’ and to others with ‘You’re a millenial!’

    He’s in hysterics.

  112. Blogvader says:

    I respect your right to vote as you see fit. Please pay me the same courtesy.

    Thank you.

  113. emjayay says:

    Maybe you should move.

  114. Bill_Perdue says:

  115. emjayay says:

    Hillary Clinton is not an evil. Trump is. Even if a person thinks she counts as an evil, then vote for the lesser of two evils. What is better, less evil in the world or more evil? Voting is not a matter of identity and self-definition. It’s a few minutes spent making the best choice for the people of the US and world.

    Voting is not about you. It is about us.

  116. emjayay says:

    Yes I am. I thought Stonewall was in 1968. So I was a year off.

    And of course there were all kinds of other related things going on particularly in SF and LA. I lived in SF at the time – remember the not unrelated Summer of Love in 1967?. I was attempting to make the same points you are. Maybe reading my comments with a bit of irony would help. Maybe I should include smiley faces.

  117. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    You don’t get what Wanderer is saying, but I’m not going to be wasting my time on you trying to explain it. Short answer? We’re not buying what you’re selling. You can take your Conservative link from Townhall.com and go back where you came from. :)

  118. Blogvader says:

    If that’s how our system works, then you’re REALLY going to have to do better than “If you don’t vote for my candidate than you’re voting for (insert hated party here)”.

    There’s still time.

  119. War is peace says:

    Russia again


  120. Opinionated Cat Lover says:

    Lol. Your boy Trump is making a fool and an ass out of himself day after day after day. Of all the candidates that Team Red could put up, Trump was the only one who would struggle against Clinton. Of course, in a way, you brought us Hillary. Had Team Red come to its senses and picked Kasich (or even Cruz, vile though he may be), we’d not be seeing these 5 to 10 point advantages for Clinton.

    So, either you’re one of Team Red’s sad sack trolls, or you’re a Putin Troll, which makes you amazingly more sad sack than Team Red’s trolls. Regardless, we ain’t buyin’ what you’re selling here. Try Redstate. They might listen more to your trolling over there. *smirk* Or they’ll ban you like the idiot you are, more likely. Haha. Bye now!

  121. emjayay says:

    Clinton was probably afraid of a quasi-coup from the military brass and a huge uproar in Congress making it impossible to pass anything ever. Often you can’t get too far ahead in a democracy, particularly one equipped with a South and other fundie based areas.

  122. emjayay says:

    Except, you know, that’s how our system works.

  123. emjayay says:

    Oh boy. I’m not going to bother….

  124. George King says:

    Appalled at your lack of reading comprehension and inability to google facts, before foot in mouth. I did not say HRC’s donor list (although most on that list are or have usurped US citizens of their Treasure, Commons and Inalienable Rights) isn’t that what our revolutionary war was all about?

    According to Vox’s Jonathan Allen, formerly ofBloomberg, at least 181 Clinton Foundation donors lobbied the US State Department while Hillary Clinton was in charge, highlighting new questions over whether the Clintons profited from effectively renting out American foreign policy:

    The size and scope of the symbiotic relationship between the Clintons and their donors is striking. At least 181 companies, individuals, and foreign governments that have given to the Clinton Foundation also lobbied the State Department when Hillary Clinton ran the place, according to a Vox analysis of foundation records and federal lobbying disclosures…This list of donors to the Clinton foundation who lobbied State matters because it gives a sense of just how common it was for influence-seekers to give to the Clinton Foundation, and exactly which ones did.

    Bear in mind that this analysis only includes the disclosed donors. The recently-revealed Russia/uranium deal involved undisclosed donations (part of a pattern, it turns out), in violation of a transparency agreement Hillary signed upon joining the State Department. Team Clinton’s excuse for failing to disclose the information has unraveled under cursory scrutiny. Clinton’s defenders insist that nobody has offered concrete proof that this multi-million-dollar “slush fund” favor bank ever resulted in direct action by the State Department; at some point, though, enough smoke convinces people there’s a fire. And the smoke is billowing:

    Former President Bill Clinton accepted more than $2.5 million in speaking fees from 13 major corporations and trade associations that lobbied the U.S. State Department while Hillary Clinton was secretary of state, an International Business Times investigation has found. The fees were paid directly to the former president, and not directed to his philanthropic foundation. Many of the companies that paid Bill Clinton for these speeches — a roster of global giants that includes Microsoft, Oracle and Dell — engaged him within the same three-month period in which they were also lobbying the State Department in pursuit of their policy aims, federal disclosure documents show.

    Several companies received millions of dollars in State Department contracts while Hillary Clinton led the institution. The disclosure that President Clinton received personal payments for speeches from the same corporate interests that were actively seeking to secure favorable policies from a federal department overseen by his wife underscores the vexing issue now confronting her presidential aspirations…When she became secretary of state in 2009, Hillary Clinton agreed to subject Bill Clinton’s speaking engagements to a conflict-of-interest review by an ethics counsel in Clinton’s State Department.

    Documents from Judicial Watch show the counsel’s office approving the bulk of the speaking engagements — even those that came during or after periods when the firms paying Bill Clinton were filing disclosure forms notifying government regulators that they were lobbying the State Department. The revelation that the Clinton family accepted money from 13 firms actively working to influence the Clinton-run State Department follows IBTimes’ report on Monday showing that Goldman Sachs paid Bill Clinton $200,000 just before the banking giant began lobbying the State Department.

  125. emjayay says:

    Nader is still peddling that today. He’s right that a lot of other things, like a better campaign, not sighing and walking over to Bush in the debate, running on Clinton/Gore record instead of against it, playing up his environmental cred instead of ignoring it, etc. all would have probably gotten Gore more votes. Not to mention the butterfly ballot in Florida causing all kinds of old Jews to vote for Buchanan by mistake, purging thousands of non-felons, etc. etc.

    But no Nader=President Gore.

    I don’t think Jill Stein is going anywhere.

  126. Don Chandler says:

    “It sickens me to the core that the Majority of American public would rather ban marriage equality.”–delusion often leads to sickness. If you were from Texas you could be excused because your immediate surroundings suggest that most people want to overturn Marriage Equality. But nationally, marriage equality has a 60+ polling.

  127. emjayay says:

    Not just oligarchy but totally corrupt massive kleptocracy.

  128. emjayay says:

    Free dinner plus attention, free all expenses paid trip to Moscow plus more attention and dinner with Trump’s favorite leader….way to go, Jill. Very liberal of you.

  129. emjayay says:

    When a year ago in the Republic of Ireland – you know, the conservative traditional Roman Catholic part – people voted to approve gay marriage at 62% plus with a 60% turnout it’s obvious that attitudes about gay people have changed rather radically in the West.

    The gay liberation movement started in the early 1950’s in the US. The Summer of Love-related cultural changes led to it really getting going by 1968. Here we are today.

    Women’s rights in the US started changing with the new Republican Woman after the revolution, got together in 1848 in Seneca Falls…women in the white collar workplace….women’s suffrage in 1920…women taking men’s jobs in WWII and women in WACS and WAVES…The Second Sex in 1949…no-fault divorce…the Feminine Mystique in 1963….women’s liberation/feminism …Ms. magazine…NOW….women in more roles in the military every year….

    Then there’s slavery to civil rights laws in 1965 and on from there.

    This is how things work in a democracy.

  130. emjayay says:

    Autism awareness has gone from 0 to 60 in a generation and continues to be researched and understood. WTF are you talking about?

  131. emjayay says:

    Far, far better obviously.

  132. emjayay says:

    Room, but no chance whatsoever.

  133. emjayay says:

    Prop 8 would not remotely have a chance of passing today.

  134. emjayay says:

    And they are losing.

  135. emjayay says:

    Yes, Russia’s laws under Putin against saying anything about gay anything and the active encouragement of people beating up gay people is just like gay marriage and the federal employment policy of non-discrimination and non-dicrimination laws in many cities and the military policy of non-discrimination against gay and transgender people in the US.

    No one said that the US is totally tolerant about gay people or anything else. The US and most of the West has moved, and moved rather quickly in recent years, toward gay equality while Russia has officially moved quickly in the other direction,

  136. Stephen DeVoy says:

    Another example of “red baiting” by America’s newest far-right party, The Democratic Party, led by war criminal and war monger Hillary Clinton.

  137. emjayay says:

    No doubt she got a free all expense paid vacation to Moscow. They baited the hook. She bit.

  138. lilyhammer says:

    And this person thinks she’s fit and qualified to be president of the United States? And even a tiny percentage of Americans agree with her? How is any of that possible?

  139. Lone Wanderer says:

    So you’re actually stupid enough to think that Vladimir Putin isn’t Communist.. he’s a former KGB Russian military intelligence officer, and an old-school hardliner. I lived through the Cold War, too, pal.. and your ignorance is appalling.

  140. Lone Wanderer says:

    No citations, no links, no references.. and most likely taken from some Right Wing Nut Job site. Alex Jones, probably. So you assume that just because it has a Russian-sounding name, it’s owned by the Russian government. The fact that you’re voting for Trump demonstrates your lack of intellect in the first place.

  141. Lone Wanderer says:

    Hey.. King George (need I remind you of what patriotic Americans did to the troops belonging to the last guy with that name?).. got proof of your claims about HRC’s donor list? Because one of the top donors for Trump is PUTIN.. and you obviously love Russia and Putin, so please, MOVE THERe.

  142. Bill_Perdue says:

    It will, especially if H Clinton wins. She’s the ultimate big business tool and will foce more people left than Obama who lost 300 million voters and the house in 2010 and lost the Senate after his 2012 ‘victory’.

  143. goulo says:

    Watching the US today, with Trump’s dishearteningly large support, also reminds me of Germany in the 1920s.

  144. goulo says:

    Are you saying that Defenestrator is Russian? FWIW their disqus comment history is publicly viewable and they don’t look like a Russian to me.
    Or are you just trying to say that if they agree with Stein, it means they must be pro-Russian?
    Either way, it seems an unjustifiable leap of logic.

  145. Martin Nyberg says:

    his response was funny and apt, yours made no sense.

  146. Bill_Perdue says:

    Voting changes nothing. At the end of the day the rich will rule and do as they please.

  147. WarrenHart says:

    No you dont.

  148. WarrenHart says:

    Nobody said anyone was controlled by Putin much less everybody. Jill Stein is just a naive dupe with an inflated ego and someone who despises her own countries foreign policy. A perfect candidate for Russian secret service to attempt to flip. We know the Russians hacked the DNC and other political foes emails and released them through their associate Julian Assange trying to effect the US elections. Jill Stein let herself be invited to Russia through Russia’s state propaganda arm that acts as a legitimate news service known as RT. In the video Jill Stein was so excited by the attention from Russia she sounded like she about to have an orgasm right there on camera. She’s stupid Donald Trump fits the same general profile and Trumps top military advisor was right there with Putin and Jill Stein letting themselves be used by a country’s secret service who’s stated goals are diametrically opposed to the USA’s interests.

  149. John says:

    Gays have equal rights in Russia.

    1) Homosexuals can marry people of the opposite sex — just like heterosexuals can.
    2) Heterosexuals cannot marry people of the same sex — just like homosexuals can’t.

    There are examples of Russians who identify as gay marrying people of the opposite sex.

    What is allowed for a heterosexual is also allowed for a homosexual — and vice versa. The definition of equal rights.

    LGBT activists are aware of this logical comparison. They no longer user the term “equal rights”, but “LGBT rights” instead — which is to say, laws unique to them.

  150. Ninja0980 says:

    Indeed, just look at the Zika virus.
    Already Democrats are letting the Republicans have the narrative that both parties are at fault while failing to mention they are the ones who refuse to let a clean bill pass.
    Democrats in Florida should be shouting from the rooftops about Republicans wanting the Zika bill to allow them to gut PP, allow the confederate flag to be put into certain places etc. but they won’t.

  151. John says:

    The German Greens are Trotskyites funded by Soros and American money. They are well connected Atlanticists who, despite being supposedly anti-war, supported the bombing of Serbia.

    The party is anti-German. Here’s an article, authored by a German in the know whose father died in WWII, about the Green hatred of the German nation, and their connection to unsavory anti-European forces: http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/08/green-mould/

    If anything, Russian rule would be less detrimental for the posterity of the German people than Green rule.

    Why would I, as a soldier, fight to defend a government that is pursuing the genocide of my people?

  152. david middleton says:

    Amen Patrick. Nader changed the course of history because he gave election to Bush, now Green might possibly set the Supreme Court Conservative for a generation if Trump wins. Nader tried to peddle that it wasn’t his fault after 2000. Ralph Gore lost by 573 votes in Florida and you got 90,000 votes, so tell me it wasn’t your fault.

  153. GilGimesh says:

    You Putin defenders sound like the defenders of Stalin in the early 50s.

  154. Tinaabanks3 says:

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  156. Houndentenor says:

    No, we weren’t past it at Obergefell. We were just starting to get there. We lost over and over on gay marriage when it went up for a vote. The line from mainstream Democrats was that they were for civil unions but not marriage. It’s amazing we’re already to gay marriage and that public opinion shifted so quickly. there’s basically no precedent for public opinion to shift that quickly on a social issue. I get that it’s frustrating for younger people but you have to realize that no one famous and mainstream was out in the 80s or until the end of the 90s. Ellen coming out was huge. Now actors and others can just casually mention being gay in an interview. But as late as 1998 it was a big deal to come out and frankly it meant risking your career.

    I don’t know why people are against incrementalism. Some things have to go one step at a time. I really do think some people think that we can just change society overnight by…well I don’t know how they think things happen. That’s why I hear Trump promising things with no plan to do them. he doesn’t need a plan because he wouldn’t do them and couldn’t. But people like the idea so that’s good enough. I’m more pragmatic. It’s great to have a vision of where you want to end up, but you have to find a path to get from here to there. That path is often long and difficult. If you aren’t up for that kind of journey, then you aren’t going to reach any goals.

    Be more patient with America. Superstition is hard to break away from. It took me a long time to let go of religion even after I quit believing in it. Prejudices are hard to break down too. And you do that by getting to know people and showing them that you aren’t what the fear-mongers claim. Education takes awhile. It’s worth doing.

  157. Claude Jacques Bonhomme says:

    Hillary Clinton and a Democratic Senate will have a long term influence on the Courts… at least a generation. That is why it is essential to concentrate the centrist and left wing vote in that direction. Dilution of the progressive vote in this election is a high-risk proposition.

  158. arc99 says:

    Stay away from right wing conspiracy sites. They rot your brain.

  159. 00Lew11 says:

    Everyone is controlled by Putin!

    Conspiracy theories + Neo McCarthyism = HRC Campaign

  160. 00Lew11 says:

    Hillary has all the trash behind her.

    You Russophobic paranoids sound like the Moral Majority talking about the commies.

  161. pyrophilia says:

    To that I have no counter argument. Fingers crossed for Hillary, Even though I don’t think of her as terribly left wing at least she’s under NO allusions the GOP will work with her. Our best bet for overturning a lot of these Horrible republican laws and Rulings like Citizens united is her.

    Hopefully she appoints judges that are WAY to her left.

  162. JJR says:

    Waste your time and vote for Hillary, nothing can stop Trump at this point.


  163. Claude Jacques Bonhomme says:

    If you want a judiciary that will not be right-wing ideologues and corporate whores, your bets are best met by Democrats.

  164. George King says:

    Have you no decency! You are neither a gentleman nor a scholar.
    “Enemies from Within”: Senator Joseph R. McCarthy’s Accusations of Disloyalty

    Wisconsin Republican Joseph R. McCarthy first won election to the Senate in 1946 during a campaign marked by much anticommunist Red-baiting. Partially in response to Republican Party victories, President Harry S. Truman tried to demonstrate his own concern about the threat of Communism by setting up a loyalty program for federal employees. He also asked the Justice Department to compile an official list of 78 subversive organizations. As the midterm election year got underway, former State Department official Alger Hiss, suspected of espionage, was convicted of perjury. McCarthy, in a speech at Wheeling, West Virginia, mounted an attack on Truman’s foreign policy agenda by charging that the State Department and its Secretary, Dean Acheson, harbored “traitorous” Communists. There is some dispute about the number of Communists McCarthy claimed to have known about. Though advance copies of this speech distributed to the press record the number as 205, McCarthy quickly revised this claim. Both in a letter he wrote to President Truman the next day and in an “official” transcript of the speech that McCarthy submitted to the Congressional Record ten days later he uses the number 57. Although McCarthy displayed this list of names both in Wheeling and then later on the Senate floor, he never made the list public.

    I challenge you to differentiate your bias and slander from Joseph McCarthy’s treasonous attack on the American people which so horrendous that the name Joseph McCarty has become a world wide moniker for such actions.

  165. Claude Jacques Bonhomme says:

    Let’s see disclosure from the other side, and fact checking (precise attributed quotes are useful in that respect – hint, hint). Then, we can judge.

  166. JJR says:

    More Hillary Trolls on here than Russian.


  167. pyrophilia says:

    I’m 30. I’ve been basically Supportive of LGBT Equality since I was 13. The only religion I was interested in at that age was of course Wicca.

    Yes we are. Slowly and incrementally. I’m straight white and male myself but Autistic, a Bullying victim in my childhood and a natural sympathizer as a result with The oppressed.

    I can never know all the aspects but I have my own marginalization to deal with so there’s just sort of this affinity within me for Atheist and the LGBTQIA population etc because I get that they are oppressed.

    The only thing I seem to be able to take pride in as an American is that we Evolve.

    That Evolution of attitudes is just about the only thing I find pride in. We’ve come a long way.

    A lot of Revolutionaries lately have been criticizing the logic of incrementalism but being born in 86, Becoming supportive of gay marriage in roughly 2000 and Voting for Kerry for the first time in 2004 LGBTQIA equality is the single issue that’s seen the MOST movement in my short lifespan.

    That’s the SINGLE issue that’s REALLY radically transformed in the past 10 or 15 years.

    I wish Autism awareness had come that far.

    LGBT have experienced how small changes add up to a revolution in a way no other community has in my experience.

    But yes when SCOTUS struck it down my Gut reaction was basically “It’s after 2010… And we’re only JUST getting to this point?” Why weren’t we here ten or more years ago?”

  168. JJR says:

    “a Moscow-based, Silicon Valley-styled campus for developing biomed, space, nuclear and IT technologies called “Skolkovo” — poured tens of millions of dollars into the Clinton Foundation”

    “Of the 28 US, European and Russian companies that participated in Skolkovo, 17 of them were Clinton Foundation donors” or sponsored speeches by former President Bill Clinton”

    “In one example, Skolkovo Foundation member and then-Cisco CEO John Chambers donated between $1 million and $5 million in personal and corporate cash to the Clinton Foundation”

    “Skolkovo wound up making America less safe, because it shared advanced US technology that Russia can develop for both civilian and military applications, a concern raised by Army and FBI officials.”

  169. airTHATiBREATHE says:

    How many deaths of Hillary opponents? Several in the past few months and prior to testifying against her! Wonder if Bernie was coerced, doesn’t make sense he would accept proven Election Fraud.

  170. Blogvader says:

    his biggest fault was trying to help our community in 1993 before the nation, and Washington, was politically ready for it.

    There’s actually substance to that, and I agree to a point.

    But from where I’m sitting that point illustrates even more why it was important for him to leverage the power at his disposal, where you see it as an excuse for the disastrous effects that came from his capitulation compromise.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree here, but I don’t want to vote for people who invoke sh***y compromises when the rights of so many are at stake, personally.

  171. Houndentenor says:

    More Americans voted for Gore than Bush. Not enough more because of the electoral college, some dirty tricks in Florida and the Court, but more.

    But yes religion holds us back. On that we agree. But look at how far gay people have come in the 46 years since Stonewall. What other group went that far that fast? Look at how long it took for a majority to approve of interracial marriage. We’ve made a lot of progress. I understand your frustration. maybe it’s because I’m old enough that I remember when we all thought gay marriage was unimaginable in our lifetimes. Now we’re angry that it didn’t happen sooner. That’s progress. It’s slow, frustrating and sometimes bloody but we are moving in the right direction.

    And no most people would never vote for an atheist. How many would have voted for a black man in 1960? We are making progress.

  172. pyrophilia says:

    Fortunately as bad as the Infighting has been on our side it’s far worse on the Other side of the Aisle this time around and Donald Trump is so Radioactive there’s actually room for Jill Stein in the race.

  173. Claude Jacques Bonhomme says:

    Yup! Let the American people decide the outcome of the most crucial election without information. Very responsible.

  174. Houndentenor says:

    No not most. Right Wing Christian Fascist Theocratic Bigots did not elect Obama twice. Yes, that crowd exists but they are declining in numbers. Democrats would control the House now if it weren’t for gerrymandering.

    Yes there are a lot of such people but one of the problems is that the religious right does a great job of getting their message out. It’s lies and exaggerations and bullshit, but they stay on message. Democrats suck at messaging. There wasn’t much of an anti-Prop 8 campaign until after we lost. There were plenty of people sounding alarms, but no. And then suddenly we started getting really great videos and messages about how terrible it was. AFTER the election. Democrats don’t get much done because mostly we can’t get our shit together. This year’s infighting is a great example.

  175. pyrophilia says:

    Remember that W Was elected. People voted for that Bumbling Asshole and his whole Cabinet.
    that Helps me remember how much I hate the country I was born in. I don’t like america. I’m a native of Portland but you’ll find if you talk to me for very long that in spite of being born here the last thing I wanted was for the democratic convention to go around talking about great america was because we’re not.

    And it isn’t even JUST LGBTQIA equality that I’m angry about.

    But dude my Argument works like this.

    The Judicial branch restrains the majority from doing whatever the hell it wants to whatever minority group it wants to abuse. That parts important because the point here is the majority wants to abuse the minority and the only thing standing in their way is the court.

    In what kind of fucked up country does the majority want to abuse the LGBTQIA population? WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE That makes them want to?

    Gays can get married but only because our Founding fathers had the Foresight to anticipate and fear Mob rule.

    But Let that sit in for a second OK. Because PROP 8 for instance in California was a Ballot measure which means that when you talk about Prop 8 you aren’t even talking about elected officials you’re talking a Direct Democratic vote.

    You might use the Court as a “we’d be just as bad if it weren’t for the court.” But to me there’s a reason that isn’t a satisfactory argument.

    The Conservatives have criticized judicial activism for a long time and as much as I am supportive of Judicial activism especially when it benefits Liberal causes I try to be intellectually honest when debating especially conservatives and the thing is that If they wanted to point out that Gay marriage wasn’t enacted with Majority support that’s something I’d begrudgingly have to admit.

    My point was never that the American people don’t want Marriage equality badly enough at all. It’s more like with so much legislation like Prop 8 getting through and having to be struck down by the court system it speaks to the idea that a Sizable number of American people would rather have Marriage Equality flat out banned.

    Far from “not wanting it badly enough” to get it through the legislatures they have used the legislatures to try to Explicitly ban it.

    Oh and the Majority would Never vote for an Atheist.

    I was born in the united states yes but i feel like we were lied to and tricked.

    For instance we’re told it’s the richest nation on earth all the time but go out and look and Inequality is some of the worst in the world and it’s a few Billionaires tilting the scales.

    The Gini coefficient is through the roof compared to Western Europe and more to the point when you give Europeans Austerity and Welfare and Social security Cuts they do what I wish we were doing and riot.

  176. JJR says:

    Puff, Puff , Pass …..


  177. Eddi Haskell says:

    Yes me too. I could not get an ENT either before Obamacare.

  178. Houndentenor says:

    Okay now I understand your point. Yes, parts of the US might be just as bad as all of Russia if the rest of the country didn’t outvote them in national elections and if we didn’t have courts. But we do have those things. Also, as much as I loathed W, he wouldn’t have stood by while gay people were being murdered and not had the cases even investigated. yes, that happened once upon a time in this country but it hasn’t for quite some time now. Matthew Shepherd’s killers were convicted in Wyoming, hardly a liberal bastion. It is better. Maybe not by enough, but it is better.

  179. Houndentenor says:

    I’ve given up trying to have rational conversations about health care. People lose their shit. On the left there are people who think Obama could have passed single payer if he’d really wanted to (even though he only passed the ACA by one vote) and on the other side people shriek COMMUNISM! I would like to discuss various plans and how it works in other countries and it’s just impossible. We’re lock we’ve got what we’ve got. At least now I don’t have to defends every doctor’s visit that might have had to do with a pre-existing condition. (My pre-ACA insurance tried to get out of paying for anything ENT related because I have occasionally and briefly taken asthma meds. Not kidding. 40 pages of paperwork for every fucking visit.)

  180. Claude Jacques Bonhomme says:

    Let Trump show his tax returns and we’ll see how deep he is indebted to Russian oligarchs.
    Let Stein show her tax returns and we’ll see how deep she is indebted to Russian oligarchs.

  181. pyrophilia says:

    The american left really needs to have this discussion because It’s become apparent to me that the Liberals still believe in American Exceptionalism and that ideology needs to die.

  182. Eddi Haskell says:

    Russia seems to have decided that a destabilized world under the leadership of Donald Trump — with his lessened commitment to NATO, and confused statements on nuclear expansion — is preferable to the continuation of the foreign policies of President Obama under a Clinton administration (which, in essence, it mostly will be in foreign policy). Better relations between Russia and the United States – and the rest of the world are in everyone’s interest, of course. I do think that a destabilized world — with more nations having nuclear weapons, more terrorist attacks, and lack of a NATO alliance (which might be attractive to Russia at first glance) could lead to consequences that could spiral out of control for Russia. A strong Clinton administration is not necessarily not in Russia’s best interests, but, granted, Russia has legitimate gripes about being sidelined since the breakup of the USSR in 1991 that have clouded relations between both powers that need to be addressed. I am not sure Trump is the best answer.

  183. Houndentenor says:

    I wondered how you were keeping Sasha in the lifestyle to which she’s become accustomed! ;-)

  184. pyrophilia says:

    “And really? We could have enacted representatives that would legalize gay marriage a long time ago? But I guess we just didn’t want to badly enough?

    Fuck you.”

    I didn’t say that at all, but I see you love to project onto me as well.

    what I meant was that American specifically wanted to BAN gay marriage legislatively.

    Remember the “majority” passed Prop 8.

    The Average American citizen doesn’t -want- That.


    Most of them are Right wing Christian Fascist Theocratic Bigots.

  185. Houndentenor says:

    You’re not gay, are you? You’re so close.

    Stonewall was in June 1969. There had actually been similar riots in SF and LA in the 60s but what those cities lacked at the time but what NYC had was a gay rights movement to move forward from that event. It’s fair to say that the movement got going from Stonewall but there were fits and starts before that and even a few protests.

    Yes, Obama was slow. Because Democrats are afraid that public support will crumble on them if they move to fast. The they fear that because of 1994 and 2010, etc. Because that’s what happens usually. We’ve had to drag the Democrats kicking and screaming to get this far. I wish that weren’t how it works but it’s how it’s always worked for every group. Thinking you can just elect certain people and then sit back and reap the rewards is a shockingly naive attitude but one that I find far too often, especially among Democrats. The more to the left the more they seem to believe this. First you have to elect them and THEN the real work begins to actually get what you want through Congress or the state legislature.

  186. Bill_Perdue says:

    The murder rate here is astronomical – and constant.

  187. luis arevalo says:

    this blog is real american propaganda…. shame on you…”Worn”

  188. Houndentenor says:

    Exactly. Communist? Who knows if any of the Soviet leadership ever really believed any of that crap. But he was a KGB thug and is still a thug. Watching Russia today reminds me of Germany in the 1920s. People are starting to figure that out. Some of us knew it a few years ago.

  189. pyrophilia says:

    “I can’t even get anyone elected where I live that doesn’t want to overturn Obergefell. ”


    REALITY. America is a Right wing Christofascist Bigoted hellhole that is -barely- better than the Russians.

    Fantasy world? No I’m wide awake. I WISH I lived in a Fantasy world. I wish I lived somewhere the Atheist were in the majority. I wish I lived somewhere where the NORM and average wasn’t B-I-G-O.T.

    Most of my countrymen are BIGOTS.

    I’m surrounded by them.

    You’re only proving my point.

  190. Houndentenor says:

    Hillary’s poll numbers are online. Are you too lazy to google and see them?

  191. WarrenHart says:

    This is part of a larger Putin scheme of him manipulating our elections. Using naive dupes like jill Stein and Donald trump is easy. All it took was a couple of compliments from Putin. .

  192. Houndentenor says:

    Yes, Matthew Shephard was murdered. And his murderers all went to prison and are still there. Russians post videos of themselves torturing gay men and nothing happens to them. That’s not any kind of equivalency.

    And really? We could have enacted representatives that would legalize gay marriage a long time ago? But I guess we just didn’t want to badly enough?

    Fuck you.

    I can’t even get anyone elected where I live that doesn’t want to overturn Obergefell. But thanks, for reminding me that leftists live in a fantasy world. Those of us in reality are trying to get some things done. If you don’t want to be a part of that, please step aside so the adults can get to work.

  193. crownretro . says:

    Anybody that criticizes this idiotic fearmongering article receives a bigoted McCarthy-era perjorative from the moderator. Classy move, Dems!

  194. JJR says:

    Ok, so let me get this straight, everyone but Hillary Clinton is Pro Russian.

    Bill Clinton and the Clinton Foundation have much deeper ties to Russia that anyone else running for president, that’s a proven fact. Bill Clinton was paid $750K by the Russian Govt to give 1 speech and Hillary pushed through a Pro-Russia bill while secretary of state giving RusATOM control of 21% of American Uranium. 10’s of Millions were later donated to the Clinton Foundation by Russian shell companies.


  195. Houndentenor says:

    I sing Russian, but it takes me awhile to work it out from Cyrillic. Now if there’s an Anton Belov IPA transcription…. ;-)

  196. Bill_Perdue says:

    Now I understand your politics.

  197. pyrophilia says:

    I’m not arguing that rights should be haggled over by the legislature but that the history of how marriage equality came to america is not exactly tacit proof of our TOLERANCE of the LGBT Minority in our midst.

    The fact is that through democratic action the AMERICAN PEOPLE Tried to ban marriage Equality MORE THAN ONCE and in MORE Than one occasion they succeeded through efforts like Prop 8!

    Say what you will about Russia Jailing LGBTQIA citizens! I Agree that Rights ought to be INHERENT but I’m painting a picture of uncle sam using it’s actual history to convey the nature of the american character rather than bothering to bring up any of my own view or opinions. I’m all in favor of the Bill of Rights being used in that direction but you’re again misunderstanding my actual point here.

    the Good Ole USA is Bigoted as the Seven hells!

    the LGBT people can thank their lucky stars that theframers gave us a constitution that restrains the majority from doing whatever the fuck it wants but my pointing out that that the course marriage equality took through the government being probative of our Intolerance and bigotry has nothing to do with how I feel “Rights” ought to be handled.

  198. Eddi Haskell says:

    I completely disagree with you. The LGBT community and its supporters demanded marriage equality as a core constitutional right, and were right in doing so. Our right to be treated as equal citizens should not be legislated, just as the rights of non-white to vote, or even attend integrated schools not have been subject to legislation. Although states like Minnesota and New York began to legislate marriage equality the effort stopped when the cases began to be brought before federal courts. You have your opinion, and I have mine. My right to marry should not be subject to a legislative vote. I will not even argue the living conditions for LGBT people in Russia and the United States of America and dishonor the beatings and intimidations my LGBT brothers and sisters have suffered under the horrors of Vladimir Putin. Anyone making such a comparison, either you or Jill Stein, is being disingenuous.

  199. Nikolai Kalinovski says:

    Hillary’s poll numbers are tanking so hard she went from being down 1 to having a +7 point spread on Donald Trump. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html

  200. Nikolai Kalinovski says:

    So the Russians really are trying to influence this election.

  201. Eddi Haskell says:

    About Single Payer — Not unless we elect a Democratic House for at least two consecutive terms — and one that is safe from marginal districts — and a Democratic Senate — backed up by a Democratic SCOTUS, along with a Democratic President. Then, it might be possible. Two terms are necessary to “bake in” the legislations. The reason why it failed in 2008 is that the blue dog element in both the House and the Senate were too much for Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid to overcome — or it would have happened. And there is a good chance SCOTUS would have overturned a single payer system anyway — Obamacare survived, arguably, because the insurance companies were satisfied enough to keep it going. One interesting point –the 1974 Nixon plan, if implemented, looks remarkably like improved Obamacare — Watergate got in the way of implementing it. http://khn.org/news/nixon-proposal/

  202. pyrophilia says:

    The fact that things are getting better in america for LGBT people has nothing to do with our legislative branch.

    It was our judicial branch that struck down laws enacted at the state level by the state level legislative branch that did it.

    Bringing up the fact that Russia is worse is really nothing more than the Fallacy of relative privation.It’s fallacious reasoning.

    “It could be worse.” So what? That doesn’t excuse Americas treatment of the LGBTQIA community locally.

    Again I feel the need to stress this but if America were really becoming a society that was more tolerant of LGBTQIA people then Gay marriage would have been legalized via the legislative branch.

    Instead because of the fact that we’re a republic and their are certain lines the majority cannot cross no matter what the Supreme court decided the restrictions on gay marriage violated the bill of rights.

    If America were stars and bars above the Russians in that regard truly you would have seen gay marriage legislatively legalized.

    That isn’t how it happened, The state legislatures banned it. The Supreme court invalidated it.

    Don’t get me wrong, It certainly makes the framers of the constitution look like geniuses but this is not a tolerant and open society.

    Like I said, if it were marriage equality would have been enacted legislatively.

    Instead of the ban on marriage equality being overturned judicially, which is how it actually happened.

  203. Eddi Haskell says:

    Russia has some of the most homophobic anti LGBT legislation in the world outside of the islamic theocracies and remains a gross human rights violator towards its LGBT citizens. The situation keeps on getting worst for LGBT people. There is no comparison — none — between the current situation for LGBT people in Russia and the United States and the Western Democracies, period. Jill Stein should be ashamed of herself for ignoring our situation in Russia and going to a Russia Today celebratory dinner in 2015 – the mouthpiece of the Kremlin- which has been used to justify Putin’s horrific policy towards LGBT people in the past. See this article by the HRC on Russia’s treatment of its LGBT population. https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/01/14/dispatches-jail-time-being-gay-russia

  204. Phil in FLL says:

    The Russian language doesn’t have the definite article (“the”) or the indefinite article (“a”/”an”). Let’s look at the hilarious misuse of the definite article in the following (with flagrant mistakes bolded):

    Author needs to do more homework. Putin clearly stated to international press that THE US is forcing another nuclear arms race. Putin is responding to the US threats that are increasing. Do your homework dude !

    Not only should the first example be “the author,” but native English speakers only use the word “author” for published volumes, not for newspaper or Internet articles, where we usually use the word “writer” or “blogger.” The second example should read “the international press,” but the dead giveaway is when the commenter types “the US threats,” in which he mistakenly adds the definite article where any native English speaker would just write “US threats.” As a reminder, the incorrect phrase “moose and squirrel are back” should be written “the moose and the squirrel are back.” By the way, is “Benjamin Sanders” supposed to be a play on the name “Bernie Sanders”?

  205. Eddi Haskell says:

    Author needs to do more homework? LOL That is something Boris (as in the spies Boris and Natasha) would say from the old Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons. I would post a video here but I do not want to trash up your post with humorous 60’s videos. I love your dry wit John!

  206. pyrophilia says:

    John I’m a native of Portland, you know up in Oregon. I don’t really know why people have to point out that Putin mistreats religious and ethnic minorities in Russia though as that’s hardly something new and it’s not something we’re exactly different from. Try sporting A Pagan pentagram openly in the middle of the deep south and doing Tarot card readings and tell me how openly you think America tolerates religious minorities.

    Believe me you’ll get tired of the “Ya’ll need Jesus in your lives” REAL fast.

    As to the Treatment of the Homosexuals every time Liberals (And I say this as an ally of Liberals. Even if I would call myself more Abstractly a Leftist than a liberal) bring up the point about Russian aggression towards the homosexual community I really need to bring up the point about Matthew Shepard and the murder and remind my fellow Americans that Gay Marriage is only legal in all 50 states because of the Supreme Court.

    We live in a Society that at least pays lipservice to the idea of being a Democracy what with voting on our representatives every few years and yet there are so few LGBTQIA representatives in Government and on top of that We could have elected a legislative body that wanted to legalize marriage equality a long time ago but we didn’t do that.

    Instead what we got was a Court invalidating all the bans. Don’t get me wrong. I Support the Supreme court ruling but don’t flatter America or credit it with suddenly becoming a Tolerant and open society just because the court decided that those DEMOCRATICALLY ENACTED bans violated the bill of rights.

  207. Mike Ennamorato says:

    A true cult — blocking out any opinion that doesn’t match yours.

  208. pyrophilia says:

    “in a country where homosexuality is illegal! Nice grand standing there Jill.”

    Because america is ohhhh so tolerant of homosexuality. <— So tolerant that people can still be fired from their jobs if they’re outed and often are and people think the struggle is over just because gay marriage was legalized BY THE SUPREME COURT and not by Democratic action mind you. We’re not a whole lot better than Russia in that regard.

    But Russia is a really bad comparison if you want to punch holes in american exceptionalism. Try Sweden or Denmark or anywhere in Atheist Europe.

  209. Eddi Haskell says:

    LOL this blog reads like an old National Lampoon special. It really does. We need to send the JMG readership here.

  210. pyrophilia says:

    Nice fallacy of relative privation there.

    You might not want to use logical fallacies when debating.


  211. Daniel says:

    I agree and want to add one thing. US economy is very global and has a lot of ties all over the World (not only “oil”) so you have some interests and responsibilities in those countries. And even if US wanted to “go out of the stage”, it will not be to do so without huge consequences for itself. Russia and China want to become “great” but russia sees greatness in ability to kill and destroy without punishment, and China in “becoming” someone (basically replacing it). So US just has to go on.

  212. ChacRose says:

    so your main political debate tactic is to deflect from arguments and question the nationality of your opponent. impressive.

  213. ChacRose says:

    right coz only Russia has troll farms. Your blog is the definition of troll farm

  214. Matthew says:

    Clinton shill.

  215. Considering the man murders journalists in his own country, and the political opposition at home and abroad, and uses neo-Nazis to terrorist gays and trans people, among other abuses, yes, the fact that you praise him does speak volumes as to who you really are.

  216. Bill_Perdue says:

    She’s been an open bigot for decades and only rebranded to fool people last spring.

  217. 4on_4off says:

    Your welcome Bill

  218. Bill_Perdue says:

    H Clinton never opposed B Clinton’s rabid racism, his welfare gutting, his hiring of 100,000, his calculated murder of half a million Iraqi children or his attacks on unions and working people with NAFTA and deregulation.

    Neither did Gore which is why he lost in 2000.

  219. Bill_Perdue says:

    Leftists don’t care much which right wing party is in office – both are the enemies of workers, people of color, women and the LGBTQ communities.

  220. heimaey says:

    Yeah! She’s awful. Look how many people she’s killed in the Middle East and Central America…oh wait, that’s HRC.

  221. Patrick Burns says:

    THANK YOU!!! I’m sick of these ego maniacs like Stein and Nader – who have zero chance of winning on a third party ticket, KNOW they have no chance, but run anyways. If the green party wants to be a real grass roots third party, then you start at the root level – running for local offices – city Council, Mayor, hell, even dog catcher. You don’t start at the top – POTUS – and work down. Stein, like Nader, will only tip the scales for the GOP, and the thought of a Trump presidency… If that doesn’t scare people enough to vote common sense, vs their ideals this cycle, then they are idiots.

  222. Bill_Perdue says:

    H Clinton rebraned in an attempt to hide her bigotry on April 15, 2015. She had nothing at all to do with DOMA being overturned and never introduced a motion to do that while in the Seante.

    She was an open bigot for decades.


  223. Folks, just fyi, but we’ve had a swarm of Russian trolls here today pretending to “Americans.” Sadly, their English isn’t quite up to par, for folks claiming to be native-born Americans — many have Russian accents in their written English, for starters (don’t mess with a linguist blogger :). While I’m sure a few of the naysayers are real, most seem to be from Russian troll farms. In the meantime, every should read this article from the Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/08/06/how-russia-dominates-your-twitter-feed-to-promote-lies-and-trump-too.html

  224. Patrick Burns says:

    Smartest thing you’ve said – yes, Russia IS worse. Last I looked, our president can’t take the helm for as long as he likes. We have little things called checks and balances, to prevent that. Oh, and Jill Shit-Stein is a pandering POS to go over seas and criticize US human rights – in a country where homosexuality is illegal! Nice grand standing there Jill.

  225. No, it’s actually not irrelevant at all if Russia is trying to throw the American election for either Trump or Stein (though clearly Stein has no chance, so supporting her would be simply to take votes away from Hillary — Putin is more anti-Hillary than he’s pro-Trump, in terms of his involvement in our election.)

    And having studied the Soviet Union in the 1980s in graduate school at Georgetown, and then visiting the Soviet Union, in addition to working on arms control issues, I’m well aware of soviet and now Russian misinformation tactics, which include false equivalencies. Sometimes the only way to win is not to play the game :)

    PS Your defense of Russian civil rights abuses against gay and trans people is absolutely sickening, and it’s the best proof that you’re a paid troll. Gay people are being kidnapped and killed in Russia, as are trans people — and it’s being done by neo-Nazi groups that Putin has intentionally coddled and given a wink and a nod to. It’s beyond disgusting what’s been happening. And you have the nerve to joke about it and belittle it.

    Like I said, now we know you’re from a troll farm. And you’ll be leaving, Boris.

  226. Bill_Perdue says:

    This is what ended DADT:

  227. Bill_Perdue says:

    H Clinton has a decades long history of union busting, racism and anti-gay bigotry.

  228. Bill_Perdue says:

    “Hillary Clinton evolved on same-sex marriage within the first 72 hours of her presidential run, as her campaign said Wednesday that the former secretary of state now backs marriage equality as a US constitutional right.

    The about-face, dropped as Clinton was preparing the second of two progressive-leaning appearances in Iowa, represents a significant – if not completely unexpected – shift from her previous statements that same-sex marriage should be legislated state-by-state rather than on the federal level.”

  229. Bill_Perdue says:

    Clinton was wrong across the board – NAFTA and huge job losses, deregulation and the economic collapse of 2008, his racist attacks on people of color here and abroad, culminating in guttting welfare, hiring 100,000 cops and the murder of half a million Iraqi children.
    The Clintons are disasters just like Trump.

  230. Bill_Perdue says:

    “We Forget What It Was Really Like Under the Clintons – NAFTA failures; deregulation of banking and ENRON’s rise; “Welfare Reform” that led to more poor people. This and more is what the Clintons gave us.” http://www.alternet.org/story/72336/we_forget_what_it_was_really_like_under_the_clintons

  231. Bill_Perdue says:

    She was and is a rabid racist.

  232. Phil in FLL says:

    From your comment:

    “…this red-baiting has become silly.”

    Why do you call the post red-baiting? I’m sure the author realizes that Putin’s regime is not communist but a laissez faire capitalist oligarchy. Nowhere in John’s post did he imply otherwise. John is criticizing the Putin regime for its massive civil rights violations, which include have journalists and political opponents killed. Calling John’s article “red-baiting” for no apparent reason is just plain stupid.

    As for your second paragraph, the three Baltic countries and the former Eastern Bloc countries have every right to join NATO if they feel it’s necessary for their protection, and I’m sure those countries don’t need your permission to do so.

  233. I heart big sister says:

    Hello John,

    Are you replying to my post? If so, you aren’t addressing the issue I raised of a double standard in your criticism of Jill Stein for not “speaking truth to power” while not expecting this same behavior from politicians you like.

    I wrote a respectful and truthful assessment of your piece. If I am a Russian or not, it really doesn’t make any difference. That is simply an ad hominem attack. That would be like me calling you a paid Democratic hack-it would be irrelevant. I need to answer your actual argument even if you are a paid shill for Clinton. Content is all that matters.

  234. How do you say all of that in Russian?

  235. heimaey says:

    Yeah – good answer. Ignore the shitty things America does because Russia is worse!

  236. Defenestrator says:

    What a profoundly dishonest blog post. Stein pointed out that thinking about *why* people are distrustful of vaccines is good public policy. And the video you link to quotes Stein saying things she clearly does not say. Nevermind that the US supported an anti-democratic coup in Ukraine and that Clinton is obsessed with eastward NATO expansion – policies that make nuclear war more likely.

    John Aravosis, Peter Daou, Joan Walsh = the Sean Hannitys of centrism.

  237. It does, in Russian. I use it for all my Russian trolls :)

  238. “Those of us who are old enough to remember the Cold War know that Putin isn’t a communist and this red-baiting has become silly.”

    Are you high? Putin is former KGB! And his record is anything but a reformer. He’s actively killing journalists in the country.

    Wow, you guys are so transparent.

  239. glddraco says:

    so go live in Russia.

  240. heimaey says:

    I’m 43 and extremely disappointed with the Clintons and their history with the LGBTQ community. Not all of us have the fond memories that you do.

  241. Crime Reporter says:

    Hillary’s real poll numbers must be tanking… now you Hillary supporters are screaming about the Russians toward Stein? This is comical and WILL start backfiring. Those of us who are old enough to remember the Cold War know that Putin isn’t a communist and this red-baiting has become silly.

    We also know that the United States is trying to goad the Russians by putting missiles next to their borders. I really don’t want World War III, especially with a son turning 18 next year. That you’re willing to risk getting the country into a war with another Super Power to avoid talking about the content of the DNC leaked emails or the content of the Green Party’s pro-99 percent platform is concerning.

    The US meddles in foreign governments’ elections and they in ours forever. Who cares? Oh – and I know about Stein’s VP, but I’m not voting for him, I’m voting for the Green Party platform which isn’t insane Republican or Dempublican.

    Oh – and my avatar? It has nothing to do with Russia, for me. It has to do with the actress.

  242. “The federation government”? Where you from, boy? Because no anglo speaks like that. Russian sock puppets do. But no English speakers do.

    You remind me of that Buffy episode about Dracula where Xander gets compromised and keeps unwittingly referring to Dracula as “Master,” and then catches himself and adds “bater.”

  243. heimaey says:

    Ya think????

  244. Shh, don’t tell him about my Swiss bank account or my billion dollar trust fund ;-)

  245. I was there. I worked on DADT in 1993. Nothing was as clear cut as you say. We immediately had Colin Powell, as chairman of the Jt Chiefs taking us on, and then Sam Nunn, as chair of the Armed Services committee. Clinton was unfortunately outgunned from the beginning. It was a clusterf*ck to be sure, but hardly Bill Clinton’s fault — his biggest fault was trying to help our community in 1993 before the nation, and Washington, was politically ready for it.

  246. heimaey says:

    Common sense that no Dem will ever be on board with.

  247. How old are you? And I mean that seriously. Because you sound like a millennial, the way you talk about Hillary and gay rights. Because only someone who became politically aware in the past 2 or 3 years would even think that attacking Hillary on gay rights and trans rights was a “thing.” One of Obama’s big problems in 2008 was that all the gays were før Hillary because she had SUCH a great longstanding record on our rights. It’s was unquestionable. Then she did even more as secretary of state, going before the UN and chastising its member states for being anti-gay. Then helping trans Americans get passports that reflected their gender identity. It isn’t even debatable whether Hillary is good on gay and trans issues. You would only claim that if you were naive, or if you were intentionally lying because you simply don’t like her.


  248. heimaey says:

    We all know Russia is horrible but it’s good to bring attention to how bad America can treat its citizens. Good on her!

  249. emjayay says:

    Google says that means “hello friend”.

  250. emjayay says:

    The modern Gay Liberation movement really got going with Stonewall in 1968. It was proceeded by Mattachine and others in the 1950’s. A month and a half ago Obama (yes, disappointing, incremental, slow moving deliberate Obama) declared Stonewall National Monument. One or two of the usual far right anti-gay Christianists made a fuss. No one paid any attention.

    Things in relation to gay rights have changed a bit over the past years. 1993 was 23 years ago.

  251. Phil in FLL says:

    I didn’t complain about your intention to vote your conscience. I’m complaining about your campaign to convince anyone you possibly can that Clinton is a bad candidate while at the same time remaining silent about Trump’s obviously neo-fascist campaign. I don’t use that term lightly. Trump, after all, has promised to imprison Hillary Clinton if elected, bar Muslims from the U.S. and order mass deportations of illegal immigrants.

    And why is it Republican for John Aravosis to criticize Putin’s regime? If you’re hypersensitive about communist regimes, you should have gotten the memo that Putin’s regime is not communist but laissez faire capitalist in the extreme. So why is criticizing a thug like Putin a Republican thing to do.

    If all you intended to do is vote your conscience, then you would vote your conscience and leave it at that. But your campaign to demonize Clinton is exactly what I said it is: asking people not to endanger Republican victory.

  252. He’s a troll. There’s been an influx of Russian trolls pretending to be Americans today, and of late. Just fyi.

  253. You all write with very good English. I’m impressed you can translate so well from the Russian. Because you argument is pure Russian. America doesn’t murder its own journalists. American doesn’t empower neo-Nazis to kill its own gay and trans people. Obama didn’t have his political opponents killed. But hey, you keep going with your false equivalences between a brutal quasi-dictatorship and the United States, if that makes you feel good. But it’s a pure Kremlin talking point. And we’re not that dumb :)

  254. Oh my god, yes. She’s been a fierce supporter going back to 1991, when I first heard of her. She stood publicly with AIDS activists back in 91, something very few people did, even Democrats.

  255. Of course you do, you probably work there in St. Petersburg at the Internet troll factory that does all the faux pro-Trump attacks online as well. Love the fake photo :)

  256. You’re arguing with a Russian troll :) Just fyi.

  257. Houndentenor says:

    You are out of touch with reality.

    No, DADT shouldn’t have gone in front of the courts before it did because the lawyers representing servicemembers knew we’d lose. In 1993? That’s pretty much the same court that upheld sodomy laws in Hardwick v Bowers.

    And of course the Clintons are criticized for it. I myself have done much of that criticizing. But he didn’t have any options. His executive order would have been undone by a huge vote in Congress and what Nunn and others were proposing was WORSE that DADT.

    2003 was AFTER Clinton appointed liberals to the court. He didn’t have Ginsberg and Breyer on the court yet. Yes, SCOTUS was bout to overturn DADT when Congress finally repealed it in the final days of 2012.

    So Clinton took a compromise over something Congress would have done that was much worse, and you claim he lacked courage? The courage to stand on principle and let things be even worse? That’s not courage. that’s foolish pride.

    (Frankly you’d make a better case against him with DOMA but even there they would have overridden his veto.)

  258. Hound, I think it’s time we welcome our Russian friends to the blog. That comment from “Benjamin” even had a Russian accent to it. I particularly liked the inappropriate use of the word “dude” at the end, as though we’d use it like that.

    Здравствуйте товарищ! To all of our Russian troll friends!

  259. Здравствуйте товарищ!

  260. Oh my, how very Russian of you — we have no reason to care when people like us (or unlike us) are being slaughtered in other parts of the world. I was going to say “you do realize that’s Russia’s and China’s line of argument, that no one has the right to tell them to stop slaughtering their own people.” But of course, you know that, товарищ, don’t you ;-)

  261. Houndentenor says:

    Putin is a thug. It’s not just gays being treated badly in Putin’s Russia but religious and ethnic minorities as well. How are western leftists this naive that they can’t see what he is?

  262. Houndentenor says:

    How is Hillary Clinton a criminal? She’s never even been charged with a crime much less convicted. BTW, some Democrats are moderates. Maybe most. there were not enough “truly progressive” (your words) voters in the Democratic Party to elect Sanders, so what makes you think such a candidate wouldn’t go down in flames in a general election. I’m happy to support moderates.

  263. Houndentenor says:

    I didn’t say they are exempt from anything. I have been criticizing Bill Clinton for DOMA and DADT for over 20 years! But it’s 2016 and my choices are Hillary (not Bill) Clinton and Bernie Trump. I did not vote for Sanders in the primary because I am not a socialist and I found almost all his positions far-fetched to say the least.

  264. Houndentenor says:

    What happens in our system is that the coalitions that make up the two main parties realign from time to time. We’re a bit overdue for that at the moment which is why you see so much anger and resentment towards the establishment of each party. I wouldn’t begin to guess what the parties will look like 10 years from now but there will be some changes to who is aligned with whom.

  265. Blogvader says:

    I disagree that she is the best choice, and I vehemently disagree that the Clintons are exempt from criticism on DOMA and DADT.

    I support your right to vote as you see fit.

  266. Blogvader says:

    And the issue could have gone to the SCOTUS much sooner than it did, which could very well have meant a win for us all. Instead, we got decades of systemic discrimination and tens of thousands of soldiers’ careers and lives devastated.

    You may not like it, but the Clintons are rightly criticized for it.

    You’ll recall that as early as 2003 they were voting in favor of LGBT causes by declaring sodomy laws unconstitutional.

    Clinton had options. What he lacked was courage.

  267. Houndentenor says:

    I favor single-payer but we are NOT going to get it in the next 8 years. I don’t know why people are basing their votes on proposals that couldn’t possibly be passed.

  268. Houndentenor says:

    I have come to realize that there are people on the far left and right who would rather have someone they hate in power so they have something to complain about. Getting results means compromising and even working with people that you disagree with on other issues. Somehow that’s become a negative. It used to be called doing your damn job. This demand for ideological purity has made it impossible to get anything done, even things that ought to be passing through Congress and legislatures easily. It’s a fucked up kind of politics and people pushing for that nonsense deserve to be ridiculed and also blamed for the clusterfuck that is our current government.

  269. Ted Voth Jr. says:

    Jill and you and I and any US citizen have no immediate personal responsibility for Russian human rights. US human rights are our responsibility.
    I heard an interesting thing, I should have recorded where but didnt, that the Patriot Act is a translation of the old Soviet civil code…
    Your argument is a variant of the childs response ‘You did it first!’

  270. Houndentenor says:

    No, because moral relativism.

  271. Houndentenor says:

    Obviously Hillary Clinton because Jill Stein, currently polling at 2-3% is never going to become president. Also, Clinton did a good bit of talking about women’s rights and gay rights on an international stage to countries where those positions are not popular (to say the least). Could she be even better? Obviously. But let’s not be ridiculous.

  272. Houndentenor says:

    There are sometimes Green running for state office where I live and all of them are just a ridiculous. Are there any Greens that aren’t? I’ve yet to hear from one.

  273. Houndentenor says:

    Yeah, just like happened in 2000. Oh wait….

    Seriously, what a bunch of morons.

  274. Houndentenor says:


    Yes, all that Americablog money!

    Are you new here? I’ve been reading this blog for at least 10 years.

  275. Houndentenor says:

    Note that there were members of Congress who voted to repeal DADT in 2012 who had voted for it back in 1993. I don’t get why some think no one in politics is ever allowed to change their minds. I’m glad they do because otherwise we’d never move forward.

  276. Houndentenor says:

    So everyone is stuck with ever political position they ever held? No one can change their mind 20 years later about something they said. I voted Republican for the first 10 years I was eligible to vote. Do I have to vote for Trump in 2016 because I was stupid enough to vote for Reagan in 1980 and 1984?

  277. Benjamin Sanders says:

    HRC is by far the worst presidential candidate the Democratic party has ever promoted. Do you think she will stop at election fraud, TPP, deportation and now at least three dead bodies around the DNC’s lawsuits ? Dude, please, drink some coffee and do some research into who you are voting for. Yes, it’s a ‘God given’ right to stupport a criminal, but Stein is a much better candidate. Can we at least agree on that point? Neo-Liberal (aka moderate kiss ass) Clinton vs the truely progressive Stein?

  278. david middleton says:

    thanks for pointing out more Of Bush policies that helped screw our country for years. I can’t believe I forgot FEMA, Banks, economic crash, SEC etc. oh well I was on a roll, mostly concerned about Nuclear Don and Supreme Court. I really wonder if people know the president has complete control to launch a nuclear weapon. He has a military member with him at all times with all codes in a brief case, the president carries a card 24-7 that pairs the briefcase with the card so all he does is make a call and say “launch”. That’s actually a scary thought no matter who is president. No checks and balances.

  279. Houndentenor says:

    So he could have issued the executive order and then Congress was ready to pass an outright ban on gays serving in the military that would have been even worse than DADT and with the votes to override his veto. Let’s not be naive. Clinton fucked up on that issue, but once he’d made the promise he was fucked.

  280. Houndentenor says:

    DADT was part of an all around fuck-up. It was intended to be a compromise and all it did was make things worse (more gay servicemembers were discharged after it than before) and angered everyone on both sides of the issue. Honestly, Bill Clinton should never have promised to get rid of ban on gays serving in the military. It was naive of him not to foresee the backlash that would ensue and in fact it pretty much derailed his presidency. That plus health care ignited a right-wing backlash that meant he had a Republican Congress to deal with for 6 of his 8 years as president.

  281. Houndentenor says:

    Yes, I accept that people who weren’t that good on gay issues are now better because if I don’t that leaves me with almost no one to vote for ever. Biden voted for DOMA as well. So did Chuck Shumer. Sanders’ support for gay rights is spotty too. We have to allow people to grow and change or we’d have the same level of support we had when DOMA and DADT sailed through Congress with veto-proof majorities. Yes, I resent the Clintons for both DADT and DOMA, and in fact that plus Hillary’s Iraq War vote were main reasons I didn’t support her in 2008. But she is now the best choice and her positions on gay rights now are good.

  282. Houndentenor says:

    She OUGHT to pay you because you do a better job than some of her spokespeople do. I’m with you. I’m a center-left Democrat. Clinton was by far the best candidate running for president this year. If people don’t like her then they need to provide better options next time.

  283. Benjamin Sanders says:

    Author needs to do more homework. Putin clearly stated to international press that THE US is forcing another nuclear arms race. Putin is responding to the US threats that are increasing. Do your homework dude !

  284. Houndentenor says:

    Stein is a typical leftist loon. Fortunately she has no chance of becoming president.

  285. Houndentenor says:

    Yes. Saying that gay rights are human rights at the UN was a big deal since it upset many governments we do business with.

  286. Houndentenor says:

    That’s a pretty low standard. I guess Russia is a bit better than Saudi Arabia but that’s like deciding which poison is the least toxic. Neither is a place I’d want to go since I’m gay and that’s a dangerous place to be in both Russia and Saudi Arabia.

  287. david middleton says:

    I just posted without editing knowing I made some mistakes but only wanted to get my point out. Thanks

  288. Mike Ennamorato says:

    “Russian foreign policy, or Russia’s horrific lack of respect for human rights — Putin has journalists and other opponents killed.” — Maybe some sources? No? Not like Putin is blamed on purely hypothetical situations (with little evidence that isn’t circumstantial), or anything.

    Jill is clearly referencing our foreign policy’s violations of human rights, of which there are many, Doctors without Borders, anyone?

  289. Andy says:

    And Hillary has been a fierce supporter of LGBTQ rights, even when it was unpopular?

  290. Blogvader says:

    The same could be said for Nancy Reagan on AIDS.

    …and we rightly showered her with criticism.

  291. Moderator3 says:

    Please get out of the car.

  292. wjohnallen says:

    I’ll second Stein’s suggestion that you need to “replace a US policy of domination with a way forward based on respect, collaboration, international law and human rights.” War mongering and state-invoked world terrorism by the US needs to stop.

  293. Blogvader says:

    Correcting this for accuracy: “On the record, she opposed DADT, when she wanted specific people’s votes.”

    There, now it’s a complete sentence.

  294. Anntink says:

    I think I’m going to puke…

  295. Andy says:

    This article has many inaccuracies. First off, Jill Stein’s words have been twisted in regards to vaccinations: https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/290621-green-party-candidate-im-not-anti-vax%3famp?client=safari

    Secondly, I am sure she has many problems with Russian social policies that are inhumane, but as a candiate in the US, her resposibilities first and foremost involve making the US a better place. This is any candidate. Jill is a messenger of peace and diplomacy. She is not saying that Russia is perfect! Jill finds common ground to avert war and promote peace.

  296. emjayay says:

    Thanks, Donald.

  297. emjayay says:

    Sorry. Makes no sense.

  298. arc99 says:

    Yes it really is. The original link I posted was from 1999 when she first sought the US Senate seat. Convenient silence for you. Respect for the role of the First Lady to me.

    On the record, she opposed DADT. As far as I am concerned, your claim that she supported it is false. False claims unsupported by any objective information do not change minds.

  299. WarrenHart says:

    All it takes are a few complements from Vladimir Putin to turn someone into a Russian propagandist evidently.

  300. emjayay says:

    Like when she was married to the president for his eight year term?

  301. arc99 says:

    Opinions are not facts. In order for there to be a flip flop, an earlier stated position is completely contradicted by a subsequent stated position. You are welcome to make unfounded unsubstantiated accusations if that makes you feel better.

    What is crass is to accuse someone of having a position that they have never publicly advocated. There is no record that she ever supported DADT. None.

    Her record as a candidate is clear, documented and available to anyone who cares to do the research. On the other hand, all we have are assumptions, accusations and innuendo about “wherewithal” to support your view.

    I proudly voted for President Obama twice. What these past 8 years have shown me is that an argument that relies not on what the person actually said, but instead relies on partisan spin without any documented example of the person actually stating the position in question, is to be ignored.

  302. I heart big sister says:


    I am wondering about a seemingly double standard you are holding Stein to here. As JamesHovland points out below, Clinton has had plenty of dealings with repressive dictators to include pressing the Russia Reset button. When she did this, were your critical of her for not speaking to them about their human rights record? Kerry and his wife had dinner with the Assads. Did you feel they should have told the Assads they were reprehensible at that meal?

    I read Stein’s position on Putin. She said openly that he is no hero but she feels the need to work with him to prevent a war (proxy or otherwise) between Russia and the US. That doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me.

    Clinton and Obama have actively sold weapons to brutal regimes. As you probably know, some of the ordinance used against the peaceful protesters in Bahrain came from the US. Sitting down with brutal dictators without confronting them directly and publicly about their human rights abuse is normal in US foreign policy. Just so, I have not seen many leaders of other nations telling Bush or Obama they are war criminals, even though they both are.

    In this case we have Jill Stein laying out a different way of approaching our enemies. She is saying that the US needs to respect human rights and international law for the sake of peace. I’m not sure why that is so offensive.

    Stein is clearly in support of LBGTQ rights. God knows some Russians run around chasing people they think are gay with Icons! There are Americans who protest at funerals of gay service members. Putin is clearly a bad actor in the world. However, if you look at the things Clinton and Obama have done, you cannot really call them agents of goodness and light.

    So, if you haven’t criticized Clinton, Kerry and Obama for both eating with and (arming) vicious dictators around the world, without them taking the opportunity to “speak truth to power” at the meal or afterwards on TV, then why are you demanding this from Stein?

  303. emjayay says:

    You mean a quarter century ago?

  304. WarrenHart says:

    Evidently no.

  305. WarrenHart says:

    You mean when she was Secretary Of State?

  306. WarrenHart says:

    Chelsea broke the law, right or wrong. She’s got to pay for that.

  307. emjayay says:

    Then there’s you know, overt and covert military aggression against other countries on occasion leading to shooting down random airliners full of passengers.

  308. WarrenHart says:

    She was talking about violence during an unprecedented violent crime wave that occurred during the crack epidemic.

  309. emjayay says:

    Good luck with all your facts and history and things.

    You might have included Bush II’s complete trashing of the Justice Department, appointing Wall Street shills to the SEC and other agencies leading to the worldwide economic crash, and appointing unqualified guys to head things like FEMA instead of, you know, an emergency services or even general management professional.

    Oh, and like someone below I would suggest using Edit to stick in paragraph spaces here and there after your post appears. Just trying to be helpful.

  310. Blogvader says:

    But I also have FACTS demonstrating that in her initial run for public office, your claim that HRC supported DADT is false.

    No. My opinion that she flip-flopped on DADT in order to court the gay vote for her Senate bid is a fact, because she somehow couldn’t find the wherewithal to oppose this obvious wrong beforehand. This is consistent with her character, because she flip flops all the time. Some notable recent examples are DOMA, TPP, and the Keystone Pipeline.

    You’re welcome to excuse this if it makes you feel better. I will not. In the knowledge of what this policy did to service members, it feels crass to act like it wasn’t a big deal.

  311. arc99 says:

    Your assumptions and opinions are not facts.

    A fact would be a video or audio recording or a written transcript of HRC supporting DADT. There is no such record anywhere. You are simply making assumptions. Clearly, we are not both basing our opinions on facts. You are basing your opinion on your own interpretation. As First Lady she did not contradict the public policy of her husband, the President. Such as been the case in the entire 200+ year history of our republic.

    You claim her “inaction” demonstrates support for DADT. That is an OPINION, not a fact. I say her inaction demonstrates respect for her husband, the office and the role of the First Lady, no matter what her personal opinions might have been.

    You have your unsubstantiated opinion and I have mine. But I also have FACTS demonstrating that in her initial run for public office, your claim that HRC supported DADT is false.

  312. GilGimesh says:

    Ah an RT conference. Way to try and legitimize the propaganda organ of the Putin regime. Apparenty the killing of civilians is ok with the Greens when their friends are doing the killing.

  313. emjayay says:

    See my comment above!

  314. WarrenHart says:

    Google ‘false equivalency’.

  315. Blogvader says:

    We’re both basing ours on facts.

    You’re just interpreting them in a manner that allows you to ignore her prior inaction on the matter.

  316. Moderator3 says:

    Keep your comments civil.

  317. WarrenHart says:

    It’s Vladimir Putin’s behaviour and policies I oppose. Putin’s government just debated a proposed new law that would make it illegal for people of the same gender to show each other affection by kissing or even holding hands in public also part of that law would make it a crime for someone to wear any clothing not traditional to their gender. Stuff like that is why I oppose Vladimir Putin.

  318. david middleton says:

    HRC isn’t “the lesser of two evils” but a great candidate for President of the United States. Bet that statement got some of you a little PO’d. Here goes-Everyone of us have the right to vote for whoever we like which is really an honor and privilege that many countries don’t allow. I’m 68 years old, served in the USMC in 1966-67, protested the Vietnam war in 1969-71, was a long hair bearded “hippie” after serving in Marines, had various jobs, graduated San Jose State, Life Chiropractic College and became a Chiropractor. Ive voted democrat my whole life. Are there things wrong in the two party system that we currently have today? Hell ya. Did I like Bernie Sanders running for President? Double hell ya. Do I like some of Jill Stein’s platform? Yes I do. Will I vote for Jill Stein? No.
    Why? In the 2000 Presidential election Al Gore won the popular vote but lost Florida by 537 votes in the “hanging chad” election. Ralph Nader ran as a 3rd party candidate and promised that he wouldn’t compete in swing states but at last minute he poured money for advertising and made appearances in Florida, receiving over 90,000 votes. If he hadn’t competed like he promised Al Gore would have been elected.
    If Gore would have won the 2000 election we would have never gone to war with Iraq over the phony WMD that Bush/Cheney pushed down the American public throats. That lie by Bush/Cheney caused the instability we see in the Middle East today which gave rise to ISIS. That’s the Cliffnotes version how a 3rd party caused the course of history to change. 537 votes.
    We wouldn’t have been dragged into a never ending war, we wouldn’t have spent the farm on that war, over 1,000,000 People from Iraq wouldn’t have been killed, ISIS wouldn’t have formed, many U. S. Armed forces wouldn’t have died or been wounded and emotionally scared. Finally my point. If Trump gets elected in similar circumstances like Bush did in 2000 the Supreme Court will eventually end up with 8 conservative and 1 liberal justices. These 9 judges answer to no one but make the law of land. If it’s 8-1 the republicans will sue women’s right to choose–gone
    Establish laws that favor republicans in votes like boundary changes, NRA will have more power, rich will get more tax breaks, minimum wage will go down, Affortable care act-gone. HRC voted for war in Iraq along with 90% of population because Bush had pictures of WMD’s that later proved to BS. According to Republican’s she was somehow responsible for Bengazi although more people were killed in U. S. EMBASSIES when Bush was President and Democrates knew it wasn’t his fault and said nothing. The republicans, who subscribed to various conspiracies throughout President Obama’s 8 years in office while obstructing EVERYTHING he tried to accomplish even tried to blame something on Obama when Osma Bin Laden was killed saying he exposed Seal Team 6. They said by exposing Seal Team 6 all lives on Team were in danger although no one knows any of the names of members.
    I could go on but my point is voting for a 3rd party wouldn’t elect the nominee of that party because the votes aren’t there BUT it could possibly give Trump the presidency. Trump is a loose cannon that recently asked “why can’t we use nuclear weapons?” The President of the United States can start a nuclear war ALL BY HIMSELF. He doesn’t need to ask congress, the Supreme Court or ANYONE.
    I ask Jill Stein voters to really think about your vote. It’s your vote and your right to vote for who you like.
    I would also like to personally ask Jill Stein to talk to HRC about possibly starting some sort of commission to bring the Green platform into the Democrates platform. We need to work together to make sure Trump doesn’t get elected. I think the survival of the world is at stake.

  319. emjayay says:

    Parliamentary systems tend to legitimize smaller parties and they may end up in a governing coalition and get serious. An unfortunate effect of our Constitutional system is that it does not do this. A major party has to get really really bad and out of date and stick to it long enough to get a third party to a critical mass – and then there’s two biggies again. Usually the existing ones keep adapting and stay the Big Two.

    So the smaller parties (and I’m totally on board with actual green policies) can only act as gadflies, and attract marginal true believers. In the US, Greenpeace, PETA, the Sierra Club, Nature Conservancy etc. do far more to forward the actual green issues.

  320. Blogvader says:

    No, it’s really not.

    She remained conveniently silent on the matter until she needed the gay vote for her Senate bid. And that position change was: “Hey, we know we did the wrong thing but… could we just get past this please?”

  321. GilGimesh says:

    That is exactly what they want. The Greens want Trump to win believing when his presidency turns out to be a disaster there will be a rebound effect, or if they are lucky an insurection.

  322. arc99 says:

    In other words, while I have provided the factual basis to support my claim that HRC never supported DADT as a candidate for public office, there is no factual basis for your claim that she supported DADT at any time.

    We are both entitled to our opinions. I will continue to base mine on facts.

    Thank you.

  323. Blogvader says:

    Many like me were frustrated

    Yet many who claim to have been frustrated want the rest of us to vote for the people who supported DADT. (or conveniently remained silent on the matter until they wanted to court the gay vote) There are better solutions to problems than tacitly supporting discrimination when it is politically convenient, and we should expect the people we support to fight for them.

  324. Blogvader says:

    *eye roll*

    You’re going to have to do better than: “If you don’t vote for our candidate you’re a supporter of (insert hated party here)!”

  325. Blogvader says:

    And I can find no objective source that she opposed it until she decided she wanted gay people to vote for her Senate bid.

    …not unlike how she reversed course on DOMA.

    Hillary is a political chameleon. Thank you.

  326. arc99 says:

    Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with Jill Stein’s hypocrisy. Stein demonstrates that she is just as adept at looking the other way as any of the politicians she condemns.

  327. emjayay says:

    Not to mention actually winning the elections she has run in?

  328. emjayay says:

    Or her groundbreaking UN speeches as Secretary of State equating women’s rights with human rights, and gay rights as human rights as well.

  329. JamesHovland says:

    Got any reports like that on Saudi Arabia where Hillary rubs elbows with brutal un-elected dictators?

  330. JamesHovland says:

    I like Russia a lot more than I like Saudi Arabia. I’m in favor of American leaders who are comfortable with better relations and oppose those who insist that America and Russia remain “enemies”.

  331. arc99 says:

    You keep citing Hillary’s “support” for DADT which would have to have occurred while she was First Lady.

    I can find no objective source with a direct quote to HRC expressing support for the bill. Please share it if you have one.

  332. Phil in FLL says:

    Unlike the commenter whose username is “single payer,” I’m not basing my vote solely on which candidate endorses single-payer healthcare, but on a wide range of issues and qualifications (or lack thereof). You use the phrase “the parasitic, private health care industry in America.” I believe you’re referring to Obamacare, which is not entirely supported yet. Single-payer healthcare has further to go before public opinion supports it. Please don’t give me some non-argument about having the “courage” to ignore the vast majority of voters. You are simply asking people not to endanger Republican victory, which is hypocritical on your part.

  333. emjayay says:

    Obama years later after quite a bit of cultural change did not issue an executive order either. He created a process of education and even a survey of armed forces families designed to give them some input or at least make them feel like they had input, and maybe spark conversation and thinking about the issue. Many like me were frustrated….and then DADT ended, not turning things back to what was there before which was worse obviously, but ending discrimination based on sexual orientation in the military. The American Military, skewing very Southern.

    After all that, after right wingers going on about the collapse of unit cohesion and decimation of the effectiveness of our armed services, what happened? Nothing. Gay weddings in military chapels. Photos of returning gay servicemen jumping into the arms of their spouses. Thanks, Obama.

  334. Yes, we’re quite touchy about massive human rights violations, including killing gay people and journalists. The question is, why aren’t you?

  335. emjayay says:

    Um, OK.

  336. Phil in FLL says:

    Asking people not to endanger Republican victory is hypocritical.

  337. Anyone who wants to learn more about Russia’s abominable treatment of its gay and trans citizens need only type “Russia gay” in the search box in the upper right corner of this page. It’s rather horrific. And Stein had nothing to say about it, yet she had a lot to say about how bad US human rights are — in Moscow — at a Kremlin propaganda conference attended by Putin. She sat at Putin’s dinner table. She had her chance to speak truth to power, and chose caviar and champagne instead.

    Here’s a link to get you started:

  338. arc99 says:

    as I noted in the edit to my post, before she became a candidate for elective office she opposed DADT.

    Bill Clinton is not the candidate. Hillary Clinton is the candidate and her record on DADT in her political campaigns is quite clear. She opposed it.

  339. emjayay says:

    I thought these types dropped out of here after the convention.

    Commenters here tend to offer well reasoned opinions based on facts and analysis with maybe a sense of humor, not a bunch of stupid juvenile crap.

  340. Blogvader says:

    Yes, it was a failure, and one that could have been avoided by executive order if Bill Clinton had possessed the courage to do the right thing.

    The fact that she admitted it was a failure does not absolve her of her support for it, nor the hypocrisy showed by some who would have us ignore it. If anything, it’s an even stronger argument to vote against a Clinton presidency in my book.

  341. arc99 says:

    From December 1999. At no time did she support DADT in her campaigns for elective office.


    Hillary Rodham Clinton told a group of gay contributors this week that the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, intended to make it easier for gay men and lesbians to serve in the military, had been a failure, her aides said Wednesday. Mrs. Clinton, a candidate for the United States Senate, said that if elected she would work to overturn the policy, one of the first put in place under President Clinton.

  342. arc99 says:

    Well no one needs to pay me to say that as far as I am concerned it is Jill Stein who is full of shit.



  343. Tdab says:

    No blaming the DNC and Hillary supporters? They propped up such a horrendous candidate with high unfavorables that Trump may win. It’s not Stein you need to be mad at.

  344. Blogvader says:

    And you’re willing to vote for a person who supported DADT and DOMA, because those did absolutely nothing to decimate the LGBT community?

    I agree completely that the anti-gay culture in Russia is atrocious. You seem very willing to forgive our own sins for no other reason than it was our people that committed them. I think you’re being very hypocritical.

    And yes, it is a Republican tactic you’re using here.

  345. Tdab says:

    Ignoring everything that comes out of Hillary’s mouth is something her supporters are apparently adept at doing!:)

  346. Tell that to gay and trans Russians who have been brutalized by this regime, and its neo-Nazi defenders, with impunity — something Jill Stein didn’t even bother mentioning while she was in Russia discussing human rights.

  347. None yet, but hope springs eternal.

  348. Bore_Is_Bad_Enuf says:

    John, apart having admirably demonstrated yourself to be a moron, you are clearly so full of shit you belong in a composter. From which account to Clinton cut you a check? Fail.

  349. arc99 says:

    Jill Stein is a hypocrite and ideologue unfit for the Presidency. Russia invaded Crimea. How is that NOT the very kind of military adventurism she pretends to abhor?

    On Russian soil she criticizes American foreign policy abuses, the kind of which Putin is far more guilty.

    She also conveniently overlooks the probability that in Russia, the political equivalent of Jill Stein would be in prison or dead.

    And for the record, I live in California and proudly voted for Sen. Sanders in the primary. Hillary will have my vote in 2016.


    Violent deaths of Putin opponents
    April 2003 – Liberal politician Sergey Yushenkov assassinated near his Moscow home
    July 2003 – Investigative journalist Yuri Shchekochikhin died after 16-day mysterious illness
    July 2004 – Forbes magazine Russian editor Paul Klebnikov shot from moving car on Moscow street, died later in hospital
    October 2006 – Investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya shot dead outside her Moscow apartment
    November 2006 – Former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko died nearly three weeks after drinking tea laced with polonium in London hotel
    March 2013 – Boris Berezovsky, former Kremlin power broker turned Putin critic, found dead in his UK home

  350. Blogvader says:



    “America fail utterly”

    Disagreeing with you and speaking honestly about our country’s international activities is neither sedition, nor treason. It’s a call to oppose the oligarchical duopoly and evidence why you should. Or perhaps it just annoys you that Stein has managed consistency in her positions, where Hillary has flip-flopped like a satin shirt on an outdoor clothesline.

    But again, out of fear and cowardice, you and many others will again sell the rest of us out by voting ‘lesser of two evils’.

  351. I heart big sister says:


    Putin is a veritable Scarlet Pimpernel. He’s gets more like the Apache Kid everyday! Yes, certainly we need the FBI further investigating people for engaging in free speech that we disagree with. That’s not totalitarian or anything.

  352. Blogvader says:

    Can’t argue against that.

  353. Blogvader says:


    John, in non-election years, is a very reasonable commentator. This year he sees something closer to a tabloid reporter.

  354. Blogvader says:

    Seeing posts like this makes me chuckle, given that Hillary supporters are crying ‘McCarthism!’ on this thread.

  355. Blogvader says:

    “single payer”? (your username) Sounds like a hypocritical username since Trump would privatize healthcare completely.

    It would also be hypocritical for a Hillary supporter, given the fact that she now advocates for the parasitic, private health care industry in America.

  356. PillBilly says:

    Or, sounding like a post-convention Clinton-supporting neoliberal Democrat, who are rapidly adopting 20th century rightwing nationalism as they reheat “the cold war”..

  357. Pedro says:

    Man, what a stink fest it still is in the touchy world of Clintonland. Not much else to say.

  358. Karl Klept says:

    USA! USA!
    No lack of creepy things about the Hillary campaign but embracing the worst of George W. Bush ranks high.

  359. Blogvader says:

    I get tired of this guilt-by-association crap. I don’t care who Hillary knows and talks to.

    I wish it were garbage, and it’s unfortunate that you don’t care. Far more likely she’s stacking up quid pro quos, and she’ll deliver just like Obama did. In fact, she’s already delivering by changing her positions on TPP, the Keystone Pipeline, universal health care, and other issues. We can rest assured nothing she says will matter once she’s in the White House.

    Or were Wall Street bankers incarcerated en masse while I wasn’t looking?

  360. I heart big sister says:


    Did you actually read these horrifying quotes? Here is Stein saying: ““replace a US policy of domination with a way forward based on respect, collaboration, international law and human rights.” Now really, is that what you want from your country?

    Obama just put out some of the “reasoning” behind his use of drones for killing people outside of even his many war zones. It is wayyyy coool! I just can’t believe you agree with these obviously seditious statements quoted in the article. The last thing the world needs is USGinc. following international law and respecting human rights. Jeesh!

  361. Blogvader says:

    You’re sounding a bit like a Republican with this one, John.

  362. Mediakyote says:

    Spent more time picking the color, texture of her pashmina this morning than she spent selecting dimwit, pouty vp who hates Queen Bey, loves Assad. This Doctor of Aromatherapy wouldn’t last a day working in a school cafeteria – stop enabling her. We don’t need an incompetent jackyl in the Oval Office, no matter how nicely said jackyl dresses.

  363. Kenneth D Osborne says:

    So the gist of this article is “Jill Stein didn’t publicly castigate the federation government in an anti-war video she made last year, therefore she is a putin sock puppet”? Wow, that’s some stunning journalistic prowess.

    So my next question is what the hell is “americablog.com” and where does it get its money?

  364. Rap Brown says:

    Thanks for displaying the vindictive, petty ridiculousness of Hillary Clinton’s campaign,I’m all in for Jill now

  365. Don Chandler says:

    When ever you hear or read ‘sedition’ and ‘treason’…warning bells.

    Here’s a good interview and analysis on Jill Stein:


    Not going to win any friends here but she did make some heads explode on fox. I don’t like her take on Ukraine but there is some truth in the assertion that the US is surrounding Russia with nuclear weapons, something that is not friendly. Nato has moved many many inches East towards Russia. But where I am not in agreement is that Ukraine hasn’t actually rebelled against the Russian puppet Viktor Yanukovych. It’s not a Obama or the US that started the Orange and Maiden revolutions, it was discontent in Ukraine. Stein like, Putin and Trumpster, seem to suggest it’s the US behind the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovych. It isn’t.

  366. Bill_Perdue says:

    Jill Stein is barely a leftist and the same is true for the Greens as a whole. They are not rooted in the working class. However, they are moving left and I hope they continue to grow politically.

    Unions are rapidly moving left and rejecting their right wing misleadership. The bureaucrats are the enemies of industrial unions and trade union political independence. http://labornotes.org/2013/12/2013-review-aiming-higher-labor-tries-new-angles-and-alliances
    I can prove that many unions moved to support Sanders but like all Democrats he betrayed them and now supports the Walmart Scab. You haven’t offered any proof of anything.
    I suspect the given the facts of the Clinton/DNC watergating of the Sanders campaign that they play dirty tricks. That’s only to be expected by Democrats and their Republican brothers and sisters.

  367. Roo Mal says:

    Stein is so Obviously a Russian operative; and getting more free advertising then Nader ever did; because Bernie Bros are making this a thing. A majority think Clinton is a liar; thanks to 15 years of Right wing abuse; and a whole year of Bernie insanity ignoring Bernie lied too.

    A tiny percentage of Sanders fans; dismissing Sanders actual desperate desire to stop the right from winning no matter who it was. But Trump?

  368. Roo Mal says:

    we gotta stop even talking to them; they live for the attention. Every Bernie Buster Jill Stein voter has an undying need to tell you all about it. Its all for show; Domestic Policy is not something they give a fuck about. Being cool on Social Media and Comment boards is. It’s the cool thing to do! Piss off people who ACTUALLY care and ACTUALLY know what’s going on. They outrage the overwhelming majority of us; because its fun, look how it started “Jill Stein hit a nerve” Right by being obviously a Russian tool; and because, YES; Trump is that terrifying.
    Remember these tools who helped Trumps chances. Remove them from your lives; block their comments; when they stop getting any attention from us; this whole thing will evaporate. Why the fuck do any of us talk to them? Reasoning? We already know: They DONT care; and no real issues matter, they just pretend they do; and attack all the segments like Unions and Nonwhites who like Hillary

  369. Roo Mal says:

    Jill Stein Crowd: Does not care. Its cool to be ‘a rebel’ “hey man their all the same; who cares, Trump wins; I’ll just play Pokemon and laugh at all of you angry at me. Im so kewl. the ultimate rebel, look at me notice me “

  370. Roo Mal says:

    Jill Stein people have ZERO Connections with Labor. Because every union member is desperate to prevent a Republican win; Scalia’s death saved all public unions from being destroyed in a case that was about to be decided.
    We’re all desperate for a Hillary win and a Dem Supreme court nominee. Its insanely important. But to Bernie Busters; all white, who CARES if Trump wins; it wont affect nonwhite nonunion members’ the poor, immigrants, etc. But you’re such assholes you believe Hillary is an Enemy of Working class because the bubble told you so; and you don’t know ANYTHING about bills passed, voted for, spoken on, by Hillary Clinton.

  371. Roo Mal says:

    Lets Ignore Jill Stein’s obvious use as anti-american propaganda about Human Rights while sitting with a Russian Dictator who has killed all dissent and taken control of ALL Media in Russia. You MUST be a Paid Troll; or a complete idiot. How much do they pay per word?

  372. Roo Mal says:

    Thats where you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about. 15 years Union member; Hillary has been very popular with Rank and File. ALWAYS took pro labor positions. “The Bureacrats” are people WE ELECTED; to represent us at the local level; who are delegates. Far Leftist Pro Jill Stein people have their heads completely up their asses about ANYTHING detail oriented; ignore everything Hillary ever voted for; or proposed, or supported; lets do a “MCCarthyist who do you know” witch hunt.
    I mean lots of these trolls ARE paid to do this by American Crossroads. Enough to convince some; its all puppet though, no reasoning, facts never matter.

  373. 4on_4off says:

    Yes I watched the video. It’s a total hack job article that works the false anti-vaxxer BS angle as well. Agent of Putin? That’s hilarious agent of Clinton blind faith crap. Go ahead and vote for that lying POS Clinton and keep the corruption machine rolling.

  374. JN West says:

    Yeah completely ignore the video and everything that came out of Stein’s own mouth. Its a hack job obviously.

  375. JN West says:

    Another agent of Team Putin. I swear the FBI really need investigate the Green Party, and the Republican Parties funding and communications.

  376. Deukish says:

    I thought whataboutism was a commie tactic?

  377. goulo says:

    I’m surprised by your hyperbolic reaction. In all sincerity: what specifically did she say in that video that makes you think she “wants to see America as a nation fail utterly” or that she is committing “sedition and possibly treason”?

    If it was someone else (e.g. Clinton or Sanders) saying the sort of stuff she said in the video, e.g. about too much money wasted and misused on illicitly applied military force, the danger of climate change, lack of international cooperation/diplomacy, lack of respect for international laws and agreements, and so on, I suppose most people here would agree with most of it, including the criticism of some US policies, and consider it pretty reasonable and obvious and uncontroversial.

    BTW in the speech, she indeed only talks about the US, but in the text afterwards Russia is also criticized. Granted, she seems to have been naively used by RT, but that is not the same as “wanting to see America as a nation fail utterly”.

  378. Bill_Perdue says:

    I presented very relevant facts, you choose to ignore them.

    The bureaucrats who run the AFL-CIO and other unions endorsed Clinton, workers had no say in the matter.

  379. Ignatz says:

    “I presented facts,”

    Not relevant ones.

    And I’m not sure why you seem to think that invoking the AFL-CIO settles the argument, as though they were the Oracle of Delphi or something.

    But since you seem to think so: the AFL-CIO has endorsed Hillary Clinton for President of the United States.

  380. Bill_Perdue says:

    I presented facts, and the proof that most people disagree with you and are either disgusted by or despise H Clinton.

    As for guilt by association take it up with the AFL-CIO.

    Deal with it.

  381. Ignatz says:

    Argumentum ad populum.

    And you did nothing to actually address my point that your whole attack is based on guilt-by-association.

  382. Bill_Perdue says:

    And in the case of Chelsea Manning?

    She and Obama were enraged when their slimy politics were exposed and Manning, a heroine of the LBGTQ movement and the antiwar movement, arrested for exposing war crimes by the Bush and Obama regime and subsequently tortured and jailed. Chelsea Manning is now being punished for threatening suicide becasue of the cruel treatment she’s subjected to.

  383. Bill_Perdue says:

    Here are some facts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uWu0nSsg7w

  384. Bill_Perdue says:

    So you disagree with the AFL-CIO. I’m not surprised. Nor am I surprised when you defend Clinton’s role as a tool of the rich, and a very rich tool of the rich, a role identical to that of Trump.

    It happens to be a fact that most people empathetically disagree with your defense of her role as a tool of the rich and express a combination of distrust and disgust.

    From the Washington Post of July 26th 2016
    ”1) 68 percent say Clinton isn’t honest and trustworthy</i? – That's according to the CNN poll, and it's her worst number on-record. It's also up from 65 percent earlier this month and 59 percent in May. … The CBS poll, for what it's worth, has a similar number saying Clinton is dishonest: 67 percent.

    2) Her image has never been worse – CBS showed just 31 percent have favorable views of Clinton and 56 percent have unfavorable ones. … the worst of her campaign, according to Huffington Post Pollster. Clinton’s favorable rating in the CNN poll is currently 16 points net-negative. That’s unprecedented in the dozens of CNN polls on her since 1992. Gallup’s new numbers on Monday — 38 percent favorable and 57 percent unfavorable — are also unprecedented over the course of Clinton’s political career.

    3) Just 38 percent would be “proud” to have her as president. That’s down from 55 percent in March 2015. Sixty percent say they would not be proud.

    4) Nearly half of Democratic primary voters still want Bernie Sanders – Clinton dispatched with Sanders and now has his endorsement, but despite 9 in 10 consistent Sanders supporters saying they’ll vote Clinton in November, many of them still pine for their first love.https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/25/4-brutal-poll-numbers-that-greet-hillary-clinton-at-the-democratic-national-convention/

    Finally, rightists like Democrats and Republicans shouldn’t try telling socialists that we’re McCarthyites because we oppose scabs like the Clintons. You might want to take up question of McCarthyism the Clintons and their DNC attack dogs.

  385. Elizabeth Croninger says:

    Putti must be afraid of Hillary she wacks people who oppose her as well. Human rights won’t be on any side Jill get a clue. Hillary will probably put you on her hit list now, better hope you can get a date with Vladimir the imapaler for protectin. With Hillary and Vladimir in charge of the most powerful countries in the world this is going to be a pretty ugly gang war.

  386. Gkar says:

    Maybe she can be Trump’s Secretary of State.

  387. Timothy Love says:

    Stein is a nut.

  388. Ignatz says:

    “while we don’t have any insight into what Sen. Clinton advocated for while on the board of Wal-Mart,”


    Well, that pretty much makes your whole post just a pile of innuendo, doesn’t it?

    I’ve been on boards. Someone should explain to you that people on boards don’t always agree with each other. In fact, they often don’t even like each other, and break down into two opposing sides. And the side that’s in the minority can’t get much done.

    I get tired of this guilt-by-association crap. I don’t care who Hillary knows and talks to. I don’t care if someone you don’t like once paid her for something. That’s stuff is just garbage. In fact, it reeks of McCarthyism, and it’s sickening to see people who pretend to be on the left indulging in it.

  389. 4on_4off says:

    What A POS hack job article.

  390. Carolyn Berry says:

    You might actually look up Hillary’s record on human rights, including here at home before you repeat those tired old Republican talking points…..like, say, the time she went undercover in the south pretending she wanted to enroll her daughter in private schools there to expose the fact that they were still practicing segregation. that was while she was in college. Or, the fact that she volunteered to give free legal advice to poor families while in college…there’s several other examples. She has stood up for women’s rights around the world as well. Get the facts!

  391. Bill_Perdue says:

    Even when she sat on the board of directors of WalMart, the most anti union, anti-worker corporation in the world.

    “Clinton served on Wal-Mart’s board of directors for six years when her husband was governor of Arkansas. And the Rose Law Firm, where she was a partner, handled many of the Arkansas-based company’s legal affairs.” http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0312-01.htm

    David Nassar of the AFL-CIO’s Wal-Mart Watch said “We respectfully disagree with former President Clinton’s characterization of Wal-Mart as a benign, benevolent corporation striving for self-improvement either during Sen. Clinton’s tenure on the board or at present…” and “while we don’t have any insight into what Sen. Clinton advocated for while on the board of Wal-Mart, we do know that Wal-Mart has made no meaningful progress regarding the company’s poor business practices, including gender discrimination, low wages, inadequate health care, overseas sourcing or environmental degradation…” http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4183757&page=1

    The Clintons are subsidized by Wal-Mart and other .01%ers through their ‘contributions’ to the Clinton Foundation. It’s the corporation’s way of saying thank you for NAFTA, DOMA, DADT and deregulation.

  392. David Speranza says:

    Lol, you have Donald Trump and Jill Stein siding with the Russia.

  393. Paulampastore1 says:

    <<r:u. ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::::!!bx976a:….,….

  394. s k says:

    Where? Libya, Honduras, Iraq, Syria- Hillary only cares a corporate rights.

  395. quax says:

    Yeah, proving that some on the left are as naive about Russia as Trump, will do that.

  396. single payer says:

    And here they come right on cue……

  397. makikijoe says:

    Please go away Ms. Stein. You’re not helping the situation.
    Though you MIGHT end up helping the racist Trump win the White House..

  398. Ferry_Fey says:

    The text that takes up the second half of Stein’s Russia video (jpg above), is from Stein’s campaign website, author uncredited. The piece refers to her as “Speaking as part of a panel of foreign policy experts.” I don’t know where she obtained this assessment that she’s a foreign policy “expert,” but I suspect she’s a legend in her own mind. After Trump’s statement that people should vote for Stein instead of Hillary, Jill’s sitting at Putin’s table at the Russian dinner next to Putin’s chief of staff Sergei Ivanov, and now this addition of Assange to the mix, she is looking more and more like the classic “useful idiot.”


  399. 2patricius2 says:

    You’re right. Jill is no Hill. Hillary is an accomplished person who has been working for people all her life.

  400. 2patricius2 says:

    So is she trying to draw votes from Clinton so Drumpf will win and Putin will have control of the world?

  401. Jimmy says:

    Wow, this is the best the Green Party could do? How sad for them. She might be crazier than Trump.

  402. Phil in FLL says:

    Jill might be touching buttons, but probably not enough to rise above 3%. Oh, were you thinking of the 2000 election and drooling at the chance to sneer and laugh triumphantly when Trump squeaks to an election victory? Let me disabuse you of that hope. The 2000 election was a once-in-a-century cliffhanger. In that situation, a combination of Ralph Nader’s 2.75% and a Republican Supreme Court. Don’t expect that to happen again anytime soon. We both know that this election is going to be no cliffhanger.

    “single payer”? (your username) Sounds like a hypocritical username since Trump would privatize healthcare completely.

  403. kahuna754 says:

    Are you serious? Hillary has been actively defending and protecting human rights for years. That is part of being SOS. What has old Mayonnaise Stein done. “Spoke about it?” Rolls eyes.

  404. Phil in FLL says:

    I didn’t hear Jill Stein defending the human rights of Russian citizens (with the Kremlin in the background as she spoke, not less). Or don’t the human rights of Russian citizens count?

  405. kahuna754 says:

    Wow. Nasty piece of work that one. It’s no wonder that Julian Assange is the key note speaker at her convention.

  406. Dr. Waffle says:

    “Lesser-of-two-evils propaganda,” i.e. acknowledging the fact that the U.S. has a first-past-the-post electoral system.

  407. beerm0nkey says:

    Trump would not choose Stein, it would hurt him with his base.

    The point would be to use Stein to siphon off Hillary votes to help Putin’s preferred candidate (Trump) get elected.

  408. Phil in FLL says:

    Here is an excerpt from an article about the German Green Party’s policy toward Putin’s regime (link here):

    A report issued in September by the Democratization Policy Council (DPC), a US-EU think tank with close links to the German Green Party, criticizes European policy as too “soft” towards Russia and calls for an intensified intervention by the US and EU in the Balkan states to isolate and weaken Moscow…

    Echoing the line of German Green Party leaders, who have repeatedly accused the Kremlin of playing the role of the aggressor in Ukraine, the report states “….(Russian) influence has been exercised through Moscow’s playing a spoiler role, capitalizing on Western weakness, stoking ethnic conflicts and political instability in the region with the aim of enhancing its overall geopolitical influence.”

    Jill Stein is out of step with the Green Party elsewhere in the world, the most influential of which is the party in Germany, the birthplace of the Green Party.

  409. BeccaM says:

    Stein is clearly among the radicals who want to see America as a nation fall utterly. I don’t think it goes too far to suggest these are acts of sedition and possibly treason.

  410. 99%er says:

    Which one of these candidates–Hillary Clinton or Jill Stein–can be counted on to defend human rights abroad? Or are you too blinded by the lesser-of-two-evils propaganda to admit it ain’t Hillary?

  411. single payer says:

    Jill must be touching some buttons……

    Jill Stein 2016 #JillNotHill

  412. Phil in FLL says:

    My guess is that Stein will get 3% of the vote, tops. It may be more like 2% by the time November rolls around. She has nothing in common with the Green Party in European countries when it comes to catering to the Putin regime. Jill Stein is a hot mess.

  413. Quilla says:

    Since Trump chose Pence I will ASSume he didn’t get Putin’s memo about Stein…

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